Little One Gerbil Food - Query

[betty]

Has anyone looked into the new(ish) Little One range - specifically their Gerbil food version?

It seems to contains almost all the same ingredients as the Hamster one but (at least where I buy it) be more than double the price (Ham=32p per 100g - Gerb=73p per 100g). Considering 2 of their first 3 ingredients are identical and it only has dried banana, canary seed and bean flakes as extras - it doesn't immediately make sense as to the difference.

Unless the 'white sorgham' is well cheap (3rd ingredient in both the hamster versions) but of no use to gerbils? Anyone researched any data on white sorgham with gerbils?

There are 'peeled oats' in both the hamstes too but not the gerbil (6th in hams and 14th in dhams). I add oats to my base mix - so should I not be doing that?


I know that sometimes it isn't about what they need to put in - rather than getting the percetanges and costs right - but just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on me not only using the food in the first place - but that I would be using the hamster ones instead of the 'gerbil' one.


Did we have the full ingredient list somewhere already - or I can type it out if anyone wants to see the three compared.

[LilyandDaisy]

I don't know much about Little One foods specifically as I haven't really used them much, but I think gerbil foods can often be more expensive than their hamster counterparts simply because there's less demand for them. For example, the gerbil Science Selective tends to be more expensive, and harder to find, than the hamster one, even though they are identical products in different packaging. Gerri Gerbil costs more than Harry Hamster too, although the products are very similar, and either would be nutritionally adequate for either species.

There are genuine reasons for different foods for different species, but to some extent, manufacturers may choose to market identical or very similar products differently for specific species, rather than selling generic "hamster, gerbil and mouse food" because it makes owners think that the product is more specifically tailored to their individual pet than it really is.

With foods sold for specific, but similar rodents (e.g gerbils and hamsters), I tend to think of the species on the bag as more of a suggestion because these foods really aren't different for it matter too much if they're fed to the other species. In fact even with my own food mixes that I mix for my hamsters and gerbils, I will often feed the gerbils the hamster mix or vice versa if I've run out of one or something. In the past I also used to feed dwarf hamster foods to my gerbils.

When it comes to the genuine reasons I alluded to before, although hamsters and gerbils have quite similar nutritional needs, they can have different food preferences. Dwarf hamsters tend to like lots of small seeds such as millet, grass seeds, and they also enjoy dried insects. Syrian hamsters tend to prefer larger grains like millet and barley, and many Syrians won't eat dried insects. Gerbils seem the most adaptable in that they will usually eat a wide variety of grains of different sizes, and usually will eat dried insects.

Another reason for different foods is that Russian dwarf and Chinese hamsters are prone to diabetes and people prefer not to feed them dried fruits for this reason. There's some intense debate on how necessary or effective avoiding fruit is but people (including myself), tend to err on the side of caution. But this concern doesn't apply to gerbils, Syrian hamsters or Roborovski hamsters. I believe this is probably the reason for the Little One Gerbil food containing dried banana when the hamster one doesn't. I notice the dwarf hamster food also has inulin added, which the other foods don't, probably because inulin is believed to have a positive effect on blood sugar.

So due to the reasons above, a gerbil can fairly safely be fed any good hamster food, but not necessarily vice versa because hamsters are more picky and not all gerbil foods would be appropriate for a diabetes-prone hamster.

I can't think of anything significant about canary seed, bean flakes or white sorghum that would make them particularly unsuited to either hamsters or gerbils. Both my hamster and gerbil mixes have sorghum and they all eat it. I don't think there is a huge difference nutritionally between red and white sorghum and I use them interchangeably in my hamster and gerbil mixes, depending on which is available or cheaper when I'm buying ingredients.

[betty]

Excellent - as I suspected there is nothing to worry about with excluding the LO Gerbil version from my mix. Great reasoning too for the fussy nature of hamsters compared to 'I'll try it all' gerbils...

I only hopped on to the Dwarf Hamster version as all my usual 'small seeds' foods seem to be drying up: changing to lose half the seeds, not being readily available, and/or increasing in price even with the changes. So, I love the small seeds, but there only really seemed to be this version found in stores near me, and because it had such a wide variety of unusual seeds - I just stuck with it. Then I recently saw the Hamster and Gerbil ones and snapped up a few bags of each assuming they would be equally interesting and roughly the same price.

Then I saw the receipt.

[Markpd]

Hi betty, I don't know if you recall my following thread & post when Erin's Ark shut up shop, might be useful to you??
Re prices, note it's date.

Apr 12, 2023 12:34:46 GMT -8 Markpd said:

Yea it's a shame she's shut up shop .

Summarising the choice here, I'll start with price and weight and add ingredients, composition and an overview later.

[edit]I have re-ordered the ingredient positions to highlight when the same ingredients are used in multiple different forms, however betty informed me that the original order represents the weight order. So I have added links to various sites showing the original manufacturers order.

Little One Feed For Dwarf Hamsters 400g, £2 (£5/kg) +£3.49 delivery up to 2kg from Viovet.

These are the ingredients and composition according to the manufacturer Mealberry:-

For the original listing order, see here.

White millet, yellow millet, white sorghum, multigrain pellets, buckwheat, canary seed, red millet, meadow grass seeds, safflower seed, Japanese millet, barley, pea flakes, barley flakes, yellow panicum, barley puffed, sunflower seeds, milk thistle seeds, dried zucchini, Niger seed, healthy seeds, perilla, sesame seed, hemp seed, inulin, yucca extract - 23 different ingredients (not counting the pellets).

Analytical constituents: protein — 13.7%, fat — 9.5%, fibre — 7.1%, ash — 6%, calcium — 0.9%, phosphorus — 0.6%

Additives/kg: vitamin A - 7500 IU; vitamin D3 - 800 IU; vitamin E - 50 mg; biotin - 70 mcg; cupric sulphate (II) - 3.5 mg, zinc sulphate - 15 mg, potassium iodide - 0.8 mg - 7 different additives

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Little One Feed For Gerbils 400g, £2 (£5/kg) from Viovet.

Pettitt and boo states this for the ingredients and composition (curiously slightly different from petplanets list).

Original list order here.

Ingredients: Wheat Puffed, Wheat, Red Millet, Barley Flakes, Barley Puffed, Barley, Maize Red, Canary Seed, Maize Flakes, Maize Puffed, Multigrain Pellets, Carob, Buckwheat, Pea Flakes, Dried Banana, Sweet Lupin Flakes, Spray Millet, Pumpkin Seeds, Sunflower Seeds, Dried Carrot, Peanut, Bean Flakes, Yucca Extract - 18 different ingredients (moved Fructooligosaccharides).

Analytical constituents: Protein - 11,9%, Fat – 4.9%, Fibre - 5%, Ash - 7%, Calcium – 0.9% Phosphorus – 0.6%

Nutritional Additives/kg: Vitamin A - 6135 IU, Vitamin D3 - 654 IU, Vitamin E - 41 IU, Biotin - 123 Mcg, Cupric Sulphate (II) – 2.05 Mg, Zinc Sulphate – 20.5 Mg, Potassium Iodide – 0.82 Mg - 7 different additives + Fructooligosaccharides

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Little One Feed For Hamsters 900g, £3 (£3.33/kg) from Viovet.

Haypigs states this for the ingredients and composition.

Original list order here.

Ingredients: Wheat, Wheat Puffed, Red Millet, White Sorghum, Barley, Barley Puffed, Barley Flakes, Multigrain Pellets, Peeled Oat, Sunflower Seeds, Maize Flakes, Maize Puffed, Maize, Buckwheat, Carob, Pea Flakes, Peanuts, Sweet Lupin Flakes, Dried Carrot, Pumpkin Seeds, Yucca Extract - 15 different ingredients

Analytical constituents: Protein 13.2%, Fats 6.4%, Fibre 6%, Ash 5%, Calcium 0.8%, Phosphorus 0.5%

Nutritional Additives/kg: Vitamin A - 3298 IU; Vitamin D3 - 352 IU; Vitamin Е - 22 mg; Biotin - 66 mcg; Cupric Sulphate (II) – 1.1 mg, Zinc Sulphate - 11 mg Potassium Iodide – 0.44 mg - 7 different additives (at about 1/2 the amount the gerbil version has) + Fructooligosaccharides

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Bunny Nature Gerbil Dream Basic 500g, £8.35 (£16.70/kg) +£4.50 delivery from Vetsend.

Original list order here.

Ingredients: Plata millet, canary seed, pea flakes, spelt flakes, quinoa seeds (6%), kamut, mung beans (5%), silver millet, oats, oat flakes, red millet, dari, lucerne, dandelion leaves (3%), amaranth puffed (2,5%), carrots, parsnips, chicory root, sesame, ribwort (1%), beetroot, meal worms (1%), camomile blossoms, crickets (0,2%), semolina bran - 24 different ingredients (moved calcium carbonate to additives)

Analytical constituents: crude protein 14% · crude oils and crude fats 4% · crude fibre 6,5% · crude ash 5,5% · calcium 0,6% · phosphorous 0,4%

Nutritional additives/kg: Vitamin A 8500 IE ∙ Vitamin D3 620 IE ∙ Vitamin E / all rac-alpha-tocopherylacetate 51 mg ∙ copper as copper (II)-sulphate, pentahydrate 5 mg ∙ iodine as calcium iodate, hexahydrate 0.8 mg ∙ iron as iron (II)-sulphate, monohydrat 43 mg ∙ zinc as zinc oxide 52 mg ∙ manganese as manganese (II)-oxide 33 mg ∙ selenite as sodium selenite 0.15 mg - 12 different additives + calcium carbonate.

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Bunny Nature Gerbil Dream Expert (not available in the UK?), listed JFYI

Original list order here.

Ingredients: Plata millet, canary seed, pea flakes, spelt flakes, quinoa seeds (6%), kamut®, mung beans (5%), silver millet, oats, red millet, dari, lucerne, dandelion leaves (3%), amaranth puffed (2,5%), carrots, parsnips, chicory root, sesame, ribwort (1%), oatkernel, beetroot, mealworms (1%), camomile blossoms, crickets (0,2%), semolina bran - 24 different ingredients (moved calcium carbonate to additives).

Analytical constituents: crude protein 14% · crude oils and crude fats 4% · crude fibre 6,5% · crude ash 5,5% · calcium 0,6% · phosphorous 0,4%

Nutritional additives/kg: Vitamin A 8500 IE ∙ Vitamin D3 680 IE ∙ Vitamin E / all rac-alpha-tocopherylacetate 76.5 mg ∙ copper as copper (II)-sulphate, pentahydrate 4.5 mg ∙ iodine as calcium iodate, hexahydrate 0.65 mg ∙ iron as iron (II)-sulphate, monohydrat 42.5 mg ∙ zinc as zinc oxide 55.3 mg ∙ manganese as manganese (II)-oxide 29.8 mg ∙ selenite as sodium selenite 0.13 mg - 12 different additives +calcium carbonate.

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Bunny Nature Dwarf Hamster Dream Expert 500g, £11.20 (£22.40/kg!) from Vetsend.

Original list order here.

Ingredients: Plata millet, canary seed, pea flakes, quinoa seeds (6%), barley, mung beans (5%), amaranth puffed (5%), barley flakes, oat flakes, silver millet, perilla seeds (3%), red millet, carrots, linseed (2%), grass seed, parsnips, dandelion leaves, lucerne, meal worms (1%), yarrow, ribwort, sesame (1%), beetroot, marigold blossoms, camomile blossoms, rose blossoms, semolina bran (millet 24%) - 27 different ingredients!

Analytical constituents: crude protein 15.5% · crude oils and crude fats 6.5% · crude fibre 7% · crude ash 5.5% · calcium 0.5% · phosphorous 0.4%

Nutritional additives/kg: Vitamin A 6500 IE ∙ Vitamin D3 520 IE ∙ Vitamin E / all rac-alpha-tocopherylacetate 58.5 mg ∙ copper as copper (II)-sulphate, pentahydrate 3.4 mg ∙ iodine as calcium iodate, hexahydrate 0.5 mg ∙ iron as iron (II)-sulphate, monohydrat 32.5 mg ∙ zinc as zinc oxide 42.3 mg ∙ manganese as manganese (II)-oxide 22.8 mg ∙ selenite as sodium selenite 0.1 mg - 12 different additives + calcium carbonate.

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Gerri Gerbil by Tiny Friends Farm 850g, £2.75 (£3.24/kg) from VetUK +£3 delivery (who btw also do Johnsons Clean 'n' Safe animal spray cleaner at a good price. Gerri Gerbil food is also sold very cheap at £2.25 by my local Rokers shop! ).

Original list order here.

Ingredients: Wheat, torrefied wheat,wheat feed, soya bean meal, flaked maize, whole oats, whole maize, flaked soya beans, flaked peas, alfalfa meal, pumpkin seeds, dried carrot flakes, linseeds, soya oil, soya bean hulls, extruded locust beans, - 13 different ingredients

Typical Analysis: Protein 17.0%, Crude fibre 4.0%, Fat content 8.0%, Inorganic matter 5.0%, Calcium 0.8%, Phosphorus 0.6%

Nutritional additives/kg: Vitamin A 20,000 IU, Vitamin D3 2,000 IU, Vitamin E 100mg, Iron (as iron (II) sulphate monohydrate) 50mg, Iodine (as calcium iodate, anhydrous) 1.5mg, Copper (as copper (II) sulphate pentahydrate) 7.5mg, Manganese (as manganese (II) oxide) 30mg, Zinc (as zinc oxide) 100mg, Selenium (as sodium selenite) 0.25mg - 9 different additives + calcium carbonate

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For comparison Erin's Ark 1.5 kg gerbil food bag cost me £17.72 delivered (in 9/22). (that's £11.81/kg including delivery. I don't know what the delivery charge was though).

Ingredients - see here - 39 different ingredients!!

Other information not available.

[betty]

Thanks Markpd - I thought we had a list - but as alluded to there I couldn't remember where it even was. Perfect find.

Interesting with the Dwarf Hamster Mix: (unless it was just a mid-line skip) that there are now 3 extra ingredients listed between 'yellow panicum' and 'sunflower seeds' (peeled oats, linseed and puffed wheat) and the 'hemp' has been removed entirely.

Cool.

I am attending a show this weekend sponsored by Little One - so if anyone wants to add in any questions I can ask them - go ahead.

[Markpd]

No probs.
I was going to say I'll add it to the Food FAQ (Commercial Gerbil Food Database), but it's already in there

Re Dwarf Hamster mix, no skips (or deletions) on my part, they must've changed the ingredients already! Will have to watch out for that!

Re Little One, could you ask them how much food ingredients cost has gone up to them over the past 2 years? Thanks

[betty]

Will do...

Although, maybe store-related more than directly Little One - but mid-January the Dwarf Hamster one was £1.95 a bag - and suddenly last week it is now £2.50. Bit of a surprise.

[LilyandDaisy]

Could you possibly ask about the protein content of their mixes? They tend to be much lower than other foods - 11-13% - and a lot of people supplement them. But perhaps there is a reason for the low protein?

[betty]

Great question - I had noticed they suggest everyone has extra protein added to their foods:

"Please note, [gerbils] need to eat food containing animal protein. It should be offered no more than twice a week."


Perhaps, animal protein costs more, or it could be something about the legislation/preservatives needed for non-plant ingredients. Hmm, got the brain ticking away...

I'll write these down so I don't forget to ask them when I get there...

[LilyandDaisy]

Ah, I hadn't realised that.

I think animals proteins can also make export/import more difficult in some countries. If I remember rightly there was an American seller who used to sell special insect-less food mixes to customers in Europe to get around this.

[betty]

So. Little one weren't even at the show in the end???

So disappointed as wanted to stock up on loads of their range. Very strange after the big stand they had last year there and all their sponsorship.

I will email them all our questions anyway, as I wanted to have quite a chat with them...

Otherwise - the show was great. Saw some lovely gerbils - and amazing Burmese, and argente Rex and some lovely jirds (think I might have to add Busy-tailed jirds onto my want list).

[Markpd]

Oh that's a shame, and weird!
Hopefully they'll get back to your email at least.