Mushy poo

[LilyandDaisy]

I was handling Astra on Sunday night and she had a loose, mushy poo all over my hand. It also smelt not exactly foul, but stronger than gerbil poo normally does. Then today I've noticed she's still having mushy poo. She seems well in herself. She's eating normally and is active, and looks healthy, so it's just the mushy poo really. She's possibly drinking a little more than usual but that would make sense. My other three gerbils (one in the same tank) and two hamsters are also fine.

In terms of things that are new, there's quite a list:
- Two weeks ago I introduced a pup, Luna, to her. Luna seems fine and I have observed her producing normal poos.
- As a result of the introduction, Astra and Luna are in a new enclosure, which includes a brand new wheel, new platforms (one old one from my storage cupboard and two newly made ones), and a new grapevine which I bought from a local pet shop. 
- A few days ago I mixed new batches of gerbil and hamster food from ingredients I have had for a few weeks.
- Also a few days ago I bought some waxworms which Astra ate. She has had these before. All of my other rodents apart from one also ate the waxworms.
- They haven't fresh food in the past few days so that isn't a factor.

Since Astra seems okay in herself, I'm going to keep an eye on it for now. I have ordered some Science Selective pelleted food so I can do a kind of exclusion diet to see if there are any foods that are upsetting her. There's nothing in their food that she hasn't had before, but I'm wondering if the upheaval from the introduction might possibly be making her digestive system more sensitive than usual? That definitely happens with humans. And the pup Luna is growing into a teenager and being rather "challenging" at the moment.

Photo of the stool:

SPOILER: Click to show

Has anyone else encountered this?

[catnut]

I would wonder most about the food, i would try to use the food you usually feed them but new from the bag if you can, how is Astra now?

[LilyandDaisy]

Mar 20, 2024 13:15:42 GMT -8 catnut said:

I would wonder most about the food, i would try to use the food you usually feed them but new from the bag if you can, how is Astra now?

I started feeding the Science Selective yesterday, and today Astra's poos are still not normal, but not as soft as they were before. I'm going to continue with the Science Selective for a few days and see if they return to completely normal.

I feed them my own food mix, made up of seeds and other ingredients that I buy separately. I could order new ingredients if needed, but I think I will try to narrow down which ones are the problem (if any) first. 

Astra is still behaving normally, eating and running on the wheel etc, so she doesn't seem to be feeling unwell. Her weight is still the same as well which is good.

[betty]

I have noticed this on a few occassions - but never found the cause - apart from one time when it was almost certainly kale (but I know you said yours hadn't had fresh food).

And you are certainly right that stress, perceived stress, and increased activity can upset a tummy - so perhaps reduce wheel running short term (and replace with more stationary chewing activity) as this will help to reduce water loss through respiration also.

Certainly I would be keeping a thought for hydration whatever the cause of this - as it is amazing how fast they can lose internal moisture which can clag up metabolism and slow the speed of digestion (and lead to a decrease in appetite). The complete extruded food can be moistened with part-boiled water every so often to make a paste to increase ingested moisture, or using the milk formulas of course. Also I have found that elderly and poorly gerbils/doops/jirds really enjoy tucking into a reptile jelly pot - great for juice.

Fingers crossed it is just in passing and you'll soon see her firm up.

[LilyandDaisy]

Astra still seems to be improving on the Science Selective. Today her poo is pretty much normal. I will give it a few days before starting to reintroduce other foods.

Here she is tucking into the Science Selective:


betty Thanks for the tip about the jelly pots. I hadn't thought of those, but they're probably quite useful to keep in for sick gerbils as they're enriched with vitamins and minerals, easy to digest, and very palatable.

[LilyandDaisy]

Astra's stool was very soft again yesterday evening, but I think that was because I fed her half a peanut without thinking. Today they're completely normal. It seems like her digestive system is just a bit sensitive at the moment for some reason and will continue with a plain and easily digestible diet. I'm going to gradually reintroduce the grains from their food mix and hold off on the oily seeds for a bit longer.

If it persists I'll take her to the vet in case they can test for anything.

[TJ's Rodent Ranch]

It's great to hear everything's seems to be getting better. I wonder what caused the initial issue... it seems food could be likely but with so many new things its hard to tell.
And also a great tip about the jelly pots, Betty! I also hadn't thought of that, but as LilyandDaisy said, it would be a great choice for sick gerbils for hydration, vitamins, and minerals. Something to remember for the future

[LilyandDaisy]

Astra's still doing well and having normal stools. I'm reintroducing foods one at a time. On top of the Science Selective, they're also now getting alfalfa pellets and flaked maize. I've also been giving her a prebiotic supplement I got from Vetsend. Prebiotics feed the good gut bacteria that help to digest food and produce some vitamins.

Unfortunately Twiglet has now developed a growth on her scent gland. I'm currently monitoring it but if it grows at all, I'll be looking to get the gland removed since she's so young (just a couple of weeks short of 2 years).

[Markpd]

Good to hear about Astra, fingers crossed for Twiglet!

[betty]

Oh no Twiglet!! Bad luck.

I have hardly had any SGT in females (only 1 I can actualy remember) - that is so unlucky indeed... Boo.

[LilyandDaisy]

Yes, it does seem unusual. But Twiglet is a rather masculine gerbil in many ways. She's big with a chunky/stocky build. And she's a very big scent marker (especially recently with the introduction), which some people suggest might be a contributing factor to scent gland tumours. It wouldn't surprise if her testosterone levels were higher than average for a female.

The growth is hard to see as it's to one side of the gland rather than in the opening. I only noticed it because I felt something rough on her belly. So far it doesn't seem to be growing much if it all, and I've never seen her picking at it, which is good.

[betty]

I would certainly agree with you on the testosterone link to bulk and the increased scent marking leading to SGTs (which are both most likely linked themselves anyway).

Bless her - really glad it isn't fussing her yet.


My female was a bulky female - way bigger than her tiny mum - who she bowled over at 6 months old in a sudden declan. She was certainly bossy too.

[LilyandDaisy]

Apr 2, 2024 10:23:16 GMT -8 betty said:

I would certainly agree with you on the testosterone link to bulk and the increased scent marking leading to SGTs (which are both most likely linked themselves anyway).

Bless her - really glad it isn't fussing her yet.


My female was a bulky female - way bigger than her tiny mum - who she bowled over at 6 months old in a sudden declan. She was certainly bossy too.

Do you know if scent marking can lead to SGTs in the short term, as well as the long term?

In other words, a gerbil who scent marks more might be more likely to get a SGT over the course of their lifespan, but could a short period of increased scent marking (e.g after an introduction) be the immediate trigger for a SGT developing?

[betty]

Interesting thought for sure - but I just didn't save that kind of data at the time. If I could find my records, I might be able to infer who had an introduction and who didn't I suppose.

Just off the top of my head, it was mainly fathers still with their family who got them - but then I did have a breeding kennel (and I didn't keep any male sibling:sibling pairs). Almost all the SGTs I can think of were dads in father:son groups. So sadly - they not only most likely had at least one introduction to a female - they had experienced fatherhood - AND kept a rowdy bunch of teenage males under control for several years. Too many manly variables?

I don't currently remember any males (fathers or otherwise) who retired with a female who got them - but a dad who was getting bullied by his sons got one not long after ealving them and retiring with a female - so maybe the seed of it was already there?

[LilyandDaisy]

Apr 2, 2024 10:43:44 GMT -8 betty said:

Interesting thought for sure - but I just didn't save that kind of data at the time. If I could find my records, I might be able to infer who had an introduction and who didn't I suppose.

Just off the top of my head, it was mainly fathers still with their family who got them - but then I did have a breeding kennel (and I didn't keep any male sibling:sibling pairs). Almost all the SGTs I can think of were dads in father:son groups. So sadly - they not only most likely had at least one introduction to a female - they had experienced fatherhood - AND kept a rowdy bunch of teenage males under control for several years. Too many manly variables?

I don't currently remember any males (fathers or otherwise) who retired with a female who got them - but a dad who was getting bullied by his sons got one not long after ealving them and retiring with a female - so maybe the seed of it was already there?

This is interesting, especially given that Twiglet has also recently been separated from another gerbil who was bullying her. I didn't particularly notice increased scent marking when she was living with Astra, but definitely after they were separated.

Did you end up getting surgery for your female who had a SGT? Also, based on your experience, would you recommend going for surgery early even if the tumour doesn't seem to be growing or causing issues, or is it better to wait and see?