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Post by pepandmax on Mar 12, 2006 14:01:42 GMT -8
Red is dead!!!!!! I don't understand it! This morning I was playing with him, he and his brothers were fine. He was always the most shy of the three, but he had been voluntarily climbing into my hand for a cuddle. Well, I looked in on the little boys when I got home from the gym and I noticed that the Nutmegs were sleeping outside of the hut... then I noticed little Red an inch or two away, on his side. What's worse is that it looks like his two back paws are missing, as is the tip of his tail. I don't understand what happened. Did they fight? Was he in an accident on his wheel? Why did this happen? I thought it would be one of the elder boys to pass on first... not one of my babies. He's not even ten weeks old yet. And he was the sweetest and gentlest out of them. I just want it to be six hours ago so I could have prevented this from happening... why can't I turn back the clock... I'm pretty upset... I guess I have to bury him tonight... Can anyone tell me what happened?!?!? I don't know what to think. The Nutmegs are hanging out, sweet as can be, like nothing happened. I don't understand!?!?
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 12, 2006 14:02:42 GMT -8
This is terrible, but if I took a photo of his injuries, would someone tell me what they think happened? I'll PM it to you (it doesn't need to be posted on the forum). Thank you so much.
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caz
Member
Posts: 6,237
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Post by caz on Mar 12, 2006 14:11:21 GMT -8
Oh PepandMax how awful I'm so sorry and what a dreadful shock - he was such a lovley chap I've no idea what could have happened, but hopefully someone else can help Caroline
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 12, 2006 14:49:56 GMT -8
WHAT THE ?!?!?!?!
Ok guys, I need serious help.
Fox is acting VERY strange. He is moving VERY sluggishly, his eyes are half closed. He is breathing ok just slowly. He seems to be physically ok, just he's not acting right AT ALL. Everything is in slow motion. And he's all puffed up. He's very very wobbly, like having a hard time standing on his back legs.
There is a little tiny bit of blood on some of his claws. I think there was indeed a fight.
I gave him a small amount of the pain killer the vet gave me when Maxie had his tooth pulled. If there's nothing wrong it won't hurt him, but if he's in pain it will help. I put it onj a little bit of freshly baked bread--he threw up/ spit up/ spit out little bits of it twice, but I think he ate it back down. Now he's got a little slice of grape for hydration.
This whole time he has been sitting in Greg's palm. I'm ok with that, he'll stay warm that way.
Is it possible for him to be upset/ psychologically messed up from killing his brother or watching his brother get killed? What injuries should I be looking for?
Please help!!!!!
P.S. Tad is acting COMPLETELY normal.
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RW
Member
When someone you love becomes a memory, the memory becomes a treasure. Puppy 6/6/07
Posts: 530
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Post by RW on Mar 12, 2006 15:19:10 GMT -8
pepandmax, I'm so very sorry...I lost a very young gerbil once and somehow that seems especially hard. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Red was killed by one or both of his brothers. I don't think I've ever heard of such young gerbils fighting. Since Fox has now turned up sick, it's possible that Red died of an illness and your other two were simply cleaning up. That would explain the blood on Fox's claws. It's not pleasant, but it's perfectly natural, since in the wild, the scent of a deceased gerbil can attract predators to the area. If you've checked both boys over for wounds and can't find anything, I'd get the little guys to the vet. It sounds as though you're dealing with some sort of illness, not fighting. Again, I'm very sorry for you loss... RW
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 12, 2006 15:35:53 GMT -8
Ok, Fox is really picking up. He kept licking our hands, so on a hunch I put a little table salt on a piece of bread and he went crazy for it. Ate much of the salt and some of the bread. Now he's walking up and down Greg's arms, instead of sitting still in his palm. There's something that tells me that Fox isn't sick, but injured somehow. It is perfectly possible that Red was sick somehow, or injured himself, which upset the balance of power in the tank and resulted in a fight. Oh, and Tad is peachy keen. I hope to God that Fox/ Tad aren't sick, because I took them out of quarantine a week ago and they have been next to The Girl and the elder boys for the past week. The little boys are back in their old quarantine spot until we figure out what's going on, though. Agghhhh... EDIT: Ok, I need to decide if I'm going to put Fox back in with Tad or if I'm going to do a permanent split tank. How long can two gerbils be kept apart before you have to worry about reintroductions? If I keep Fox separate for 24 hours, is that an issue? I don't think I can figure out what the heck to do tonight...
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Post by AndreaS15 on Mar 12, 2006 15:47:04 GMT -8
Oh no! I'm thinking little Fox maybe had an upset stomach after trying to dispose of his brother. Though icky, as allready mentioned it's totally normal. Were these guy's from a pet store or breeder? I'm sorry to hear of your loss <hugs>
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 12, 2006 17:04:45 GMT -8
Oh no! I'm thinking little Fox maybe had an upset stomach after trying to dispose of his brother. Though icky, as allready mentioned it's totally normal. Yeah, I think that's how poor Red lost his back feet. I'm sure that's at least part of the reason that Fox isn't feeling too well... although there must be something else, because Tad is doing fine. (Not to be too graphic, but I managed to get ahold of part of Fox's "regurgitation," and it was like the owl pellets that you dissect in grammar school... I saw a little bit of bone, and what was probably fur ) In the end, though, I still don't know what killed Red, and I still don't know what else is wrong with Fox. Or if I should put Fox back with Tad.On a nice touch, though, I just got back from burying Redbud Sleeve in his namesake, the former Redbud Woods. I think he would be happy where he is. EDIT: Andrea, I forgot to say that these guys were the product of two "females" that a woman bought for her sons. She got them from the pet store, so I suspect the "females" were from the same litter, which makes these guys inbred at least one generation, who knows how their parents got to the pet shop. Tad looked a little queasy for a bit... now both seem fine... I put Fox back in with Tad and Greg & I have taken turns watching them for the past hour... if they're ok at bedtime (another two hours) I think we're out of the woods. Tad was bullying when Fox was first back in the tank, but that was probably because Fox was letting him (he wasn't feeling well). They've settled down now. We'll see...
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Post by Whitty on Mar 13, 2006 2:05:01 GMT -8
Awwwwww I am so so so so so so sorry for your loss *hugs* If they're quite young then I doubt it would have been a battle - maybe Red had something wrong with him and died? and Fox tried to clean up? (like mothers do with their stillborn and ill babies?) I'm so sorry for you
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 13, 2006 5:38:59 GMT -8
If they're quite young then I doubt it would have been a battle What's the youngest that they fight? Is 10 weeks really too young for fighting like this? EDIT: Just saw Greg's post below. Heeheehee we were posting at pretty much the same time. Instead of starting a new post, I'll just edit this one. I've concluded there are two options as to what happened. First, there was something wrong with Red, and when he passed away the Nutmegs did their best to dispose of his body. Red was far less robust than his brothers, so there may have been some sort of congenital defect (plus, I suspect he was inbred at least one generation, so if his grandparents carried some not so good recessives... yeah). Since there was no infectious disease, Fox got sick from indigestion and both of the Nutmegs were out of sorts last night because they were sad. The other option is that there was a fight and Red died of his injuries. He was sort of laid out straight behind and under the hut with his head facing away from his brothers because he was trying to wiggle away from them. He died in that position and they ate his feet. Like I said, he was far more timid than the other two. Maybe the Nutmegs decided there was room for only two gerbils (they are ready to move up into the next size tank). Or maybe they decided that they just didn't like him. I'm inclined to believe the first option because it's easier to swallow, no pun intended. It's hust hard to believe that those two cute and very little things could be vicious enough to kill their sibling and eat him. I know it's different in the animal world, but it's not like they were in the animal world where they have to compete for food, territory, and mates. What do you think? Too young to fight, and some sort of sickness or defect? Or a nasty fight?
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Post by lilsdad on Mar 13, 2006 5:54:16 GMT -8
Here's an update on the whole situation. When I got up this morning, Fox and Tad were nested together, though in a different spot than they'd used before the whole Red incident, and looked fairly normal and content. After Fox perked back up, he and Tad were interacting normally, taking turns on the wheel, and doing a little bit of kissing and grooming. All in all, thing seemed to be pretty copacetic between the two of them.
Also, Nicole took a good look at Red before burying him and also at Fox, and neither of them seem to have bite marks where you would expect them if there was a fight. It's possible that their fur hid any scratches or bites, but there didn't seem to be any external trauma beyond Red's missing feet. The other thing that still doesn't make much sense is the lack of blood in the tank. Beyond the flecks on Fox's rear claws and a bit on Red's back lets, there didn't seem to be much of any.
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Mud Pony
Member
We can only be, what we give ourselves the power to be!
Posts: 284
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Post by Mud Pony on Mar 13, 2006 7:09:35 GMT -8
I am pretty positive that there was no fight. I think you lost Red from some illness or physical issues like seizures, or just a congenital defect. If there wasnt any blood anywhere from the wounds on Red then he must have been dead before the injuries occured (if the blood was still pumping there would have been more).
Fox just probably got sick from doing what they do naturally to passed on gerbils of thier clan. I would just keep watch for a few days though. If you lose another one I would have them seen even in post-mort so that the vet could tell you hopefully whats going on & rule out microbes, bacteria & viruses. If it's just one then it's probably a defect from birth or something like it.
I am so sorry for your loss, our little pets become family & it;s never easy.
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Post by lilsdad on Mar 13, 2006 7:33:36 GMT -8
Thanks for the input. At this point, I really hope it's a congenital defect and that the others (including those in other tanks) aren't at risk. We'll keep a tight watch on Fox and Tad to see if their behavior is at all abnormal, and any aberrations will definitely mean a visit to the vet. Red was always a bit different from his brothers (very cautious, submissive, not as active or inquisitive), and Nicole had concerns about him from the beginning. I still don't understand why the rear feet and the tip of the tail. Anyway, thanks again for your help.
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Post by christine on Mar 13, 2006 9:19:58 GMT -8
I am so sorry for your loss and if the infection or whatever it is gets any worse I would definately contact a vet if only to ask questions.
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 13, 2006 10:31:41 GMT -8
ohg my god oh mt god
fox is limp, he can't even crawl anymore
i think were going to lose4 him
and tad is wobblying around ive got fox in my left hand typing with right
symptopms wobnbling cant stand up fallinh over not a fit sure of that seems like dehydration
HELP
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