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Post by ashgerbil on Mar 13, 2006 11:29:32 GMT -8
oh my goodness this must be so terrible for you!! *hugs* try and keep Tad and Fox warm for now, try and get them to eat some grape or apple or something like that. do you have a heat mat?? you could use that, or a hot water bottle (filled with warm water, not too hot!!) and wrap that in blankets and try and warm Tad and Fox up that way too try not to think about what has happened, try and think about what you can do to get Tad and Fox better now *more hugs n good vibes over to you!!*
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caz
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Post by caz on Mar 13, 2006 13:29:17 GMT -8
How are they doing now any improvement? Caroline
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Mud Pony
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We can only be, what we give ourselves the power to be!
Posts: 284
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Post by Mud Pony on Mar 13, 2006 13:31:10 GMT -8
It;s been a while since a post so I was hoping that maybe you guys went to a vet?... I hope so, this sounds infectious!
Please keep us updated! Whatever it is, it is just not normal now...Vet time!
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caz
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Post by caz on Mar 13, 2006 13:50:45 GMT -8
Pepandmax - what is that on the cardboard roll in the second pic down on your memorial post? Clutching at straws here, but could it be some sort of unusual glue? that maybe they've ingested? Sorry if I'm barking up the wrong tree, just trying to help Seems so odd that they've all taken so poorly so quickly. Caroline x
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 13, 2006 14:21:00 GMT -8
Ok, we're back from the vet. I'm typing normally because I don't have a sick gerbil in my left hand They're both still alive, and I think they're doing a little better. The vet couldn't figure out exactly what was wrong with them, he said if he could do a post mortem on Red maybe that would help. The vet listened to their lungs and palpitated their abdomens but nothing stuck out. Their symptoms are bizarre. Some of them are classic dehydration (wobbly, extreme lethargy, half-closed, somewhat sunken eyes). The thing that Tad is doing is confusing me. He keeps twisting his lower body, almost like he's scent-marking something, but he's just twisting. There are also moments where it looks like he is straining to pass a BM, like a mother would strain to give birth. Any thoughts? Right now we're giving them supportive care: one general antibiotic, one GI tract-specific antibiotic, and sub-Q fluids, both of them, twice per day. For as long as they're still with us. Greg is in the process of disinfecting the tank. We're going to line it with paper towels and watch for BMs... if there aren't any, I don't know, I guess it's back to the vet. The reason I am freaking out a little bit is because 1) well Red died yesterday, obviously and 2) I just can't figure out what's wrong with them. It can't be congenital--they were all struck at once. What can I give to a gerbil to help its digestion? Prunes work for humans, but I don't think they'd work for gerbs P.S. Caroline, I don't think that stuff on the tube was a problem... the big boys, The Girl, and the little boys have all had tubes like that, and none of them have been stricken suddenly like this. What to do, what to do...
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caz
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Posts: 6,237
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Post by caz on Mar 13, 2006 14:30:55 GMT -8
Thank goodness they're pulling through for now! YEH! Sugar can help get things going!!! Perhaps some watered down honey on the end of a small paint brush may help get them going and also give them an energy boost. Sorry about the cardboard tube suggestion, but was just searching for clues Caroline
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 13, 2006 14:37:39 GMT -8
Sorry about the cardboard tube suggestion, but was just searching for clues Oh, gosh, don't worry about it. I've been racking my brain for things like that, too. They're not out of the woods yet. They're not even close. On the very very bright side, I put together some of the mash I gave Max when his teeth got busted, and Fox has eaten some voluntarily. If they're still eating, it's a good sign. So, anyone got any ideas on how I can help Tad to have a bowel movement? He looks absolutely miserable. I just gave him his hydration shot... I hope that helps something somehow.
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Post by doomgerbiluk on Mar 13, 2006 14:57:15 GMT -8
Your doing all the right things. It sounds like some sort of infection to me. Follow your vets advice and tempt them with special treats. Good luck.
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 13, 2006 17:09:51 GMT -8
Fox is eating, again, actually he's eating fine.
Tad has not eaten since we got home and he's been doing the funny stiff legged straining thing the whole time.
How do I get something to go in and something to come out?!?
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RW
Member
When someone you love becomes a memory, the memory becomes a treasure. Puppy 6/6/07
Posts: 530
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Post by RW on Mar 13, 2006 17:29:21 GMT -8
Stretching, twisting, excessive digging at the sides, and excessive grooming of the belly and/or genitals are classic signs of abdominal distress to watch for. If Tad is having trouble pooping, try a very small piece (about the size of a quarter) of something green--dandelion, red or green leaf lettuce, endive, or romaine are good--every couple of hours.
My one addition to the advice you've already been given is to set up a warm corner--a heating pad set on low under one corner of their tank. The one constant I've seen with sick gerbils is that it's vital they don't have to expend energy trying to stay warm when they're ill.
I hope your next report is that Tad and Fox are feeling much better.
RW
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Mud Pony
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We can only be, what we give ourselves the power to be!
Posts: 284
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Post by Mud Pony on Mar 13, 2006 18:30:31 GMT -8
Your doing all the right things & the suggestions here are great... be sure to keep us updated.
Poor lil guys! Finger croosed -gerbil prayers said!
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 13, 2006 19:55:38 GMT -8
Back home from doing laundry. They're both still alive. Fox is better than this afternoon. I saw Fox drinking from the bottle and he is doing ok, so I'm holding off on the sub-Q fluids for him. He got his full dose of antibiotic. He is also eating well. He is improving, barely, but he is improving. Tad is worse. He has the "classic signs of abdominal distress," like you said. I got the full dose of antibiotic and 4/5 of the sub-Q fluid into him--best I've done yet. I noticed two very small, very dark, very dry, and very hard fecal pellets in the hut... I'm pretty sure those were his. As far as I can tell, he's not eating or drinking, hence, he's going to keep getting the fluids until he picks up or goes all the way down. I'm about to give him Ensure through the syringe, I'm sure he's going to hate it, but I can't remember the last time I've seen him eat. So too bad, little buddy, hate me all you want, but it's going in your mouth. Question: instead of leaf vegetables, would a pea work? Peas have moisture and fiber, but they also have more sugar. Oh, before I forget, when I set up their little "hospital" tank the first thing I did was put a heating pad under their hut. They definitely appreciate it. Fox was sleeping spread out on his belly, it was cute in a sad way. I'm not giving up on these little guys until it's over, one way or the other. I've gotten used to the fact that I might lose one more or both. Doing all of the nursing stuff (giving them stuff through the dropper, giving them the shots, etc) is getting easier, I just wish they were bigger because they're so darn tough to handle. I'm going to do everything in my power to give them a fighting chance. For Redbud P.S. Thanks for all the good wishes, guys. You all are wonderful!! EDIT: Moderators, I think this has gone away from a "were they fighting" thread and it's now a "what the heck is wrong with their health" thread, so maybe it should be moved? I don't know? Yes? No? Does it matter?
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Post by lilsdad on Mar 13, 2006 20:29:49 GMT -8
Some moderately good news: Tad voluntarily ate about a pea and a half, and Fox is back to the point where his eyes don't look so sunken. I'm very glad that Tad ate the peas because that means that we (ok, Nicole, she's the one doing all the work here) don't have to shove Ensure down his throat. We'll keep monitoring and administering the appropriate pharmaceuticals and treats and keep our fingers crossed. Tad, unfortunately, still seems to be straining pretty hard to pass whatever's inside of him.
I feel bad that we aren't paying that much attention to the big kids, but I guess that happens in a crisis situation. Plus every time I feel like I have my hands scrubbed to the point that I know I'm not spreading whatever's afflicting the little boys, something else needs to be done for them and I'm back to being potentially contagious.
Update: Nicole just fed Tad some Ensure with fiber (he looked really uncomfortable, still straining to pass a BM) and, once he stopped struggling, he actually seemed to like it. He definitely hasn't eaten much today, and it's good to see some food going into him. It's funny how gerbils will kick and fight and try to get free for what seems like ages, then all of a sudden they'll just quiet down and cooperate.
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RW
Member
When someone you love becomes a memory, the memory becomes a treasure. Puppy 6/6/07
Posts: 530
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Post by RW on Mar 13, 2006 20:40:49 GMT -8
Tad is worse. He has the "classic signs of abdominal distress," like you said. Poor little man. I've never tried peas, only greens. One of my boys suddenly got sick and was misdiagnosed as having had a seizure at the emergency vet clinic where we took him. He actually had an intestinal impaction, but I managed to get him through it by feeding him greens every couple of hours and giving him one drop of olive oil (the recommended treatment for impaction in my Diseases of Small Domestic Rodents by V.C.G. Richardson), when I got really desperate. My little guy didn't poop for a total of 24 hours that I know of for sure and also didn't eat (except for the greens) or drink for at least that long, so don't give up. Once my guy passed the impaction, he recovered very quickly. I'm really glad to hear Fox is doing better. RW
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Post by pepandmax on Mar 14, 2006 5:54:56 GMT -8
Ok really quick update: To my surprise and delight, they both made it through the night! Teehee that rhymes, whooo I'm tired Last night right before I went to bed, Tad passed a big smelly poo and he finally went to sleep after that (I don't think he slept much at all during the day yesterday, and he was up half the night too). I think the pea helped, probably the water and fiber, he finally pooped about an hour after eating the pea. Thanks for the tip, RW. This morning it looked like he was straining again, though. If he's still pushing really hard this afternoon, I'm going to try a drop of olive oil (this afternoon it will be 24 hours of straining, which is a lot for a little fella!). Per the vet's instructions, this morning they both got their antibiotics (only the general, we're not giving the GI specific one because they don't have diarrhea and because it tastes absolutely terrible and it's enough of a fight to get the one antibiotic in), 1 full cc of fluid (sub-cutaneous... their eyes are still sunken in), and Tad got nearly 1 cc of "Ensure with Fiber." So, I guess I can conclude that it was some sort of bug that got them sick and took out Red the quickest (as he was probably the weakest out of the bunch). I can also conclude that these two are maybe the luckiest gerbils the world. When I saw them yesterday afternoon, I'm certain that Fox only had minutes to an hour or two left and Tad had a few hours to one day. I don't know if they'll be ok, but they made it longer that I expected. I'll update tonight or earlier if something happens. Thank you thank you thank you for all the good thoughts and good advice... it's really helping
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