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Post by penguin on Jun 13, 2004 21:12:39 GMT -8
This is my gerbils second litter. She did fine with the first one. She lost her mind for the second litter and would attack them out of the blue. She didn't act like she wanted to kill them, more like she was mad. I took them away from her just before they turned three weeks, because their backs and stomachs were bleeding and one died. I don't think there was anything wrong with them because I fed them puppy formula and gave them weening food and they are all doing fine, except I am still waiting for the hair to grow back. It has been a little over a week. Have you ever heard of this before? She is currently pregnant so I am hoping she doesn't do this again.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Jun 15, 2004 3:34:46 GMT -8
Yes, I've heard it here on this forum! I'm not sure from who! I think from Andrea and/or Tigru! They had a new nest too quickly and didn't want to have the pups near her new litter. Probably because they still want milk at such young age. You did the right thing by removing them if the mother won't accept them anymore.
Keep your fingers crossed! I hope for you that she will do it never again!
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Post by andrea on Jun 15, 2004 3:38:51 GMT -8
Hi,
It was me that had that problem. if you read our 2 babes thread you will see me writing about it.
Eddie Cope (a successful breeder and exhibiter of gerbils in the UK) assured me that this is something that is quite common in small litters.
Andrea
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Post by penguin on Jun 16, 2004 9:20:45 GMT -8
I think I should have been a little clearer, sorry. I had removed the first litter (except for a girl I left to help with the new babies) and the dad (to prevent anymore pregnancies) when the second litter was one week old. Both pregnancies produced eight babies but she must not be able to handle that many because two or three disappear in the first few days. Plus there is always the possibility that the mom and dad are related because we got them both out of the male cage at Petco and so we did not intend to have any litters because we assumed they were both boys.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Jun 18, 2004 6:45:52 GMT -8
So as understand it correct, only a few pups disappeared, not all! Some survived! And the pups are possibly inbred! Am I correct? With large litters it can happen that some will not survive (even with small litters). It is possible that the mother has not enough milk or that some pups were not healthy. Sick pups or pups that have died are usually removed by the mother. And when it might be inbred pups, the risk of unhealthy pups or pups with ailments is much higher!  But some have survived? |
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Post by penguin on Jun 20, 2004 15:52:34 GMT -8
Okay, the mom had eight babies for the first litter. One was still born and two disappeared in the first few days. When the first litter was five weeks old the second litter was born, there were eight. Two died in the first few days I guess from not getting enough food. When the second litter was one week old we removed the first litter (except for one girl to help raise the second litter) and the dad as I previously mentioned. Everything was fine for another week and a half, and then she started attacking all of the second litter. One was pretty hurt and died three days later. I finaly removed them at three weeks (put them in with their dad and two older brothers who took good care of them) and hand fed them myself before she killed anymore. They are now five weeks old and are doing fine (except for the scars where I am hoping the fur will grow back). I don't think there is anything really wrong with them. They seem pretty healthy and are eating fine and learned to drink from the water bottle at three and a half weeks old. The third litter was born this weekend, there are nine. There may have been more but I doubt it (we were gone when they were born). She seems to be doing okay with them. I am inclined to think that she was just overwhelmed since we removed the dad. The older sister we left to help the mom is a little more capable this time, now that she is older. Should I help the mom feed them with the puppy formula or just wait and see? I don't know what to do and really hope she doesn't start attacking this litter, too. Sorry this is so long but I really do need some good advice and wanted to make sure you fully understand the situation.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Jun 21, 2004 5:52:44 GMT -8
Strange that the mother attacked the pups. But sometimes gerbils will kill their pups when they panic or are in stress. Many rodents do that. So maybe the removal of the father, older pups, in combination with a new litter was too much for her. I'm not sure if that was the reason, nobody can tell for sure. Are you sure it is the mother and not their sister? I think not btw, because she is so young, but sometimes a jealous adult female can kill the pups of another, but that is very very rare!
I would wait on how she handles the next litter, but keep an close eye on them, just in case she will do it again.
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Post by penguin on Jun 22, 2004 9:24:03 GMT -8
I think that she must have been really stressed last time because she seems fine now. Thank you for the advice.
Since she had so many (9) and there are two that are pretty small compared to the others, should I help her feed those two with puppy formula? Last time she had eight and two starved to death. It was really sad and I don't want that to happen again. She does put them in separate nests sometimes I think so that she can nurse them separately so everyone can find a teat. I am so afraid that if I do something to try and help that I am just going to make it worse.
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Post by lizzy on Jul 11, 2004 14:43:37 GMT -8
i dunno, if she's already stressed out you trying to intervene might make it worse.
if she's having big litters, its quite common for some of them to die, apparently =\
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Post by penguin on Jul 12, 2004 9:51:29 GMT -8
Just wanted to give an update. The mom I discovered just stresses out very easily. When the pups were two weeks we rearranged our house and moved the cage. She started attacking them so I moved her back and she was fine. I tried to clean up the area around her cage and she started attacking them. I made it messy again and she was fine. Her daughter from her first litter got sick and she again started to attack the newest litter. I gave her antibiotics, she got better, and the mom stopped attacking and hasn't started again since then. The pups are now almost four weeks old and all nine are alive and doing well. I am very happy there is no chance she is pregnant again. Every time she stresses out I stress out. Thanks for everyones advice along the way.
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