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Post by squeaky on Sept 1, 2004 0:44:38 GMT -8
I need some expert opinions  I have two girls, one agouti and one white/pale gold (what's that called?). I'm not sure if they are both mothers or if it's only the agouti. Agouti is definitely nursing, I've seen the babies latch on etc and her nipples are sometimes clearly visible. I'm wondering if all the babies are hers though or if it's likely that they would share the job of raising pups, or even steal them from another female. Two of the babies (both girls and both the same whitish colour) seem slightly more developed than the male baby (who is agouti), their eyes are almost fully open whereas his are still closed. I've seen both females pick up and groom the babies but I understand even male gerbils take part in parental tasks. They did have a tussle/play fight today and the agouti appears to be the more dominant girl. Any thoughts? They do have names by the way, just thought that might get even more confusing  |
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Post by darrenb on Sept 1, 2004 1:11:35 GMT -8
I need some expert opinions I have two girls, one agouti and one white/pale gold (what's that called?). I'm not sure if they are both mothers or if it's only the agouti. That is the exact reason why a breeding 1:1 ratio is much better you would already know who is the mother. You probably wont be able to tell who the mother is untill the colours start to show up in the pups, how many males adults were there in the tank with the two females, you may not even know the father. I am not an expert at this sort of thing, but wouldnt only the natural mum be producing the milk for the pups, maybe give them a check over, for milky nipples and belly. Is there one particular female that is tending to them more ? and can you not put a wire divider accross the tank, leaving the pups with one mother ? How many pups are there ? if under 6 i would assume there is only one mother. How often do you handle the gerbils, surely you could had told which ones were pregnant as they do swell up and in the last week of pregnancy you can feel movement inside the tummy. Hope that helps |
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Post by andrea on Sept 1, 2004 1:26:10 GMT -8
Darren, This was a genuine ,mistake. squeeky got them from a rescue  the rescue couldn't even sex them right.. morans ..  If I was you, if the male was in there when the babies were born chances are that the female is already pregnant, therefore I would of left the male in there until the pups are weaned as he plays and important role, also this would leave less of a chance of him remaining lonely. gerbils tend to forget tank mates after a few days so you are in the danger of having a lonely dad. Gerbil mate immediatly after birth so be aware you are probably in for another litter after this one. If you don't want to place dad back in I would introduce him to the pups everyday just to be safe. Andrea |
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Post by squeaky on Sept 1, 2004 1:45:55 GMT -8
I have not 'bred' these gerbils. They/she must have been already pregnant when I adopted them. I have only had them around 3 weeks and the babies are at least 10 days old. I have/do breed rats so I am not a complete novice, hence my questions. (Mother rats will share the pups although occassionally one may steal the other's and take them as her own, and if that were the case the other's milk may dry up or at least be less abundant). The colours of the pups won't necessarily be a reliable indication as these are the offspring of siblings who were also inbred at least once generation (NOT BY ME). Given the young age of mum/s and the inbreeding a small litter or even a single pup is not uncommon either. I handle the gerbils every day but like I've already said, they are only 2 or 3 months old so should have been growing and gaining weight anyway. Having spent their entire lives in a rescue with 100 other gerbils they had not been handled at all until I adopted them, so handling has only been for short intervals or perhaps I would have felt the pregnancies. I was more interested in getting them to trust me and come sit on my hand than holding them though, especially since I had been reassured they were all male. I see no reason to separate the litter from one of the females even if she isn't a mother. She is taking care of them and if I separated her, even with a tank divider she would then be on her own. I was really only asking to find more out gerbils maternal instincts since there seem to be a few breeders here that may have some interesting observations to share. Also, the reason my other 'post' is on a different board is because it is a separate question, and not really a breeding question, more a male behavioural question which is what the other board is for. I thought that would be preferable to having folk trawl through a long post that might get difficult to follow. (Like this one ) |
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Post by squeaky on Sept 1, 2004 1:53:31 GMT -8
Thanks Andrea I separated dad because although they may already be pregnant, I didn't want to increase the risk if they weren't, especially given their inbreeding already. I'll let dad meet up with the babies every day. Thank you again, I appreciate your post |
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Post by darrenb on Sept 1, 2004 2:02:30 GMT -8
Why is it on this forum, everyone assumes people are trying to speak 'above' them or put them down with their 'opinions' !! I am not doing either - you simply asked for advise and i gave it - if there is even further info that a reader should had known, then make it known in the one thread please.
If you only wanted to ask "do mums have maternal instinct?" then simply ask just that ? is it me or is common sense a lost art - Not aimed directly at you, just this is happening so many time recently ive been avoiding the forum on purpose.
I was only giving advice based on the info the post contained..
I hope all goes well with the litter and im quite sure the father will accept a youngster back, as long as you introduce them often and let the youngster move in with dad at about 5-6 weeks.
Mother gerbils do get very maternal with their pups, we have a mum who has a litter of 7 that are about 5 weeksold - she does not seem to want to let them go, you can guess the tank looks pretty cramped right now.
Darren
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Post by squeaky on Sept 1, 2004 2:17:16 GMT -8
Thanks for the good wishes Darren, hope you can get your mum to part with at least some of her babies soon.
Okay, to clarify for others ; Out of curiosity, I'd be interested in any interesting observations you've made regarding maternal behaviour eg.
Do mother's ever share pups? Will they foster newborns? Do they ever reject their own pups?
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Post by andrea on Sept 1, 2004 3:25:42 GMT -8
I believe especially as you have removed the male, the female thats not the mother will probably take on the father role. Just keep an eye on the female that you think is not the mum for signs of agression or jealousy. weather the second female takes on the pups in a parental situation depends i tink on the female involved as the two female are siblings themselves thats probably working on your side. In the wild subordinate females will help with the raising of young, but it has been known in captivity for the second female to become aggressive, this is why in a "ideal situation" a 1:1 ratio breeding is much better. I think the aggression from the second female will be because of overcrowding more than anything, so keep an closer eye on them when the pups get big. Yes Maddie is very attached to her babies, they are 5 weeks old on saturday and the tank is getting very cramped they stopped suckling a week ago now, but she gets all upset when I take them out and put them in the playpen.. Daddy gerbil keeps trying to flee from them !!. she will be the first female we have had that want to keep her pups the full 6 weeks. Piper normally wants them gone at about 4 1/2 weeks and Magpie chased hers off when they were 4 weeks exactly (last saturday) and shes had her second litter yesterday if she carrys on that way she may have to be sperated from her mate ... Anyway good luck Andrea |
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the rescue couldn't even sex them right.. morans .. 