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Post by sprigmom on Sept 22, 2004 13:18:02 GMT -8
We have two little girls and one boy; they've all been in a long 20 gal tank for a few weeks. (The girls are sisters from the same litter and were by themselves for a week or so before we got Coal (he's black, can you tell?  )They all get along wonderfully;  I'm very lucky, having now read how the girls could get nasty w/each other over Coal! Still keeping an eye out though... I've suspected for a while now that Buffy is pregnant and she was bleeding vaginally a bit last nite. We left them alone all night w/a cover over the whole tank to give them more privacy. No babies today and no sign of a mess except for the wet bedding in one end...someone chewed through the lid of the new larger waterbottle I'd just put in yesterday!  (Went and got a metal holder for it. Gonna use the lid from my smaller bottle. ) Should I be worried or is it similar to human females that sometimes spot during pregnancy? Also wondering if timothy hay is ok for bedding w/pups? Is it too "pokey"?  TIA! |
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Post by lydia on Sept 22, 2004 15:51:07 GMT -8
Hi,
I have never noticed any rodent spotting blood,during pregnancy.I would assume,if it was one of my gerbils that she had either given birth and the pups had been eaten (although gerbils normally only eat dead /stillborn pups),or if she is definitely still pregnant,that she had some other problem.
In the wild,all mammals and especially small rodents need to deliver quickly and cleanly.They eat afterbirths etc. very fast to help minimise the risk of attack from predators.
I'm sorry to sound so depressing,and, I hope you're next post says that she has given birth to a healthy litter of pups.I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
As regards timothy hay,I do feed this regularly to all my rodents.I don't feed it though,just before they give birth.Instead they have lucerne (alfalfa) cubes only.Once the babies are a week old, (have a decent amount of fur coming through), I do provide a small amount in the opposite corner to the nest,and let the mother decide wether to eat or nest with it.
Whilst I'm depriving her of hay, they have extra soft bedding.I use the stuff that looks like shredded J cloth.
Lydia
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Post by andrea on Sept 22, 2004 23:42:12 GMT -8
HI,
THe spotting blood is a bit worrying, i have never had that with any of our females. I would keep a close eye on her and any signs of being sickly, take her to a vet. (can gerbils get Pymetra?)
I currently don't use hay at all as our gerbils seem to be indifferent about it?. For bedding I use cheap toilet roll as its far cheaper than traditional rodent bedding and the gerbs enjoy chewing it up .. ;D
He he we have two bushy tailed jirds like like to eat water bottles, we have to cover the bottles with mesh !.
Good Luck
Andrea
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Post by queenofthenile on Sept 23, 2004 5:20:11 GMT -8
Are you sure the blood is coming from her vulva? It is quite common for females fighting over territory to get bites in that area. Gerbils don't even produce much blood during birth and they manage to clean up any secretions that are produced.
May I ask you why you are keeping two females in with a male? If they are young, it will work, but as they reach sexual maturity (4-9 months), it is a recipe for disaster. When you breed you should keep one male with one female.
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Post by sprigmom on Sept 23, 2004 6:54:47 GMT -8
Queen: I'm quite certain the blood is from the vulva. Both times I've seen it (once on each girl) the opening was slightly dialated and the blood was welling up in a little bubble inside. I'm fairly sure they haven't given birth and eaten the babies; there's absolutely no sign of it. If they did, I want them to clean my house, it'd be spotless!  As far as keeping them together, my friend at Savanna Exotics here in Michigan said that it's possible to do so, keeping a close eye out for any signs of dispute. She said she's never had a problem, having raised several herself over the years. She went on to say that the other female often helps Mom and Dad with caring for the pups. I suppose she was just lucky, but so far there has been no problem with mine. They constantly groom each other and snuggle up together. I'm home all day and they're in our bedroom, so I'm in there all night with them too. I guess when they get older I could seperate them, but I'd rather be able to find a mate for Nibbles first. She's the littlest one and she'd be really lonely. I don't want to get one from any other pet store; I know everyone at Savanna really well (they've given wonderful advice on our snakes over the past yr and a half) and they take great care of their animals. They don't have any gerbils right now, so I'm waiting. At any rate, I'm still confused about the blood. They seem really healthy otherwise. They eat drink and play as usual. I hate to have to take them to the vet, but will if I need to.  Thanks so much for all the support and advice, everyone! I'll keep you posted on their progress.  |
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Post by lydia on Sept 23, 2004 9:21:59 GMT -8
Hi, Firstly, as to wether a gerbil can suffer a pyometra, (womb infection).I can't think of any reason why they couldn't.But I wouldn't expect it.Although a pyo can happen at any time,it is more likely to happen, after a female has been fertile, but not conceieved.I am not a vet,and I might not have my facts straight here,if anyone on here is a vet ,be a sweetie and give some free advice to Sprigmom, please ;D,pretty pretty please ;D. If they are not showing any signs of distress Sprigmom,I personally wouldn't take them to a vet.Although, if they do become distressed or unwell,due to the very high metabolic rate in gerbils and other small rodents,it can be very quick in becoming serious or even fatal. I hate sounding so depressing,I must come across as a doom and gloom merchant,is now a good time to mention that I'm not.I'm actually curious and concerned . Maybe Sprigmom, you have noticed something that has been missed previously.I would expect this to be unlikely,but not impossible. Now, a question for Queenofthenile,and everbody else who has been breeding, or keeping colonies (more than 2) mongolian gerbils for many years. When I got my first pair of mongolian gerbils,which was 28 yrs ago.I had 2 females,who were litter sisters.A book that I bought at that time,recomended keeping 2 females with a male,if you wished to breed them.It did say,that if you didn't wish to breed,to keep 2 females (don't remember males being recomended),also suggested you buy litter sister's. Is it recently that this advice has changed ? I know I could have read more recent books etc.It is my own fault,that I haven't followed new discoveries etc.and maybe more accurate advice. Have I just been very lucky for the past 28 years, only owning very laid back girlies ? That have always had a very large cage,with ample food etc. I personally believe,being cramped and a food shortage can make friends (pets) tense,worried and more likely to be possesive, possibly becoming aggresive towards each other.I'm only mentioning this,because of Sprigmom following what the majority here,feel is outdated care for her gerbils.I wouldn't have queried keeping 2 females to one male,before joining a gerbil forum. Sorry for waffling, if talking was an olympic sport,I'm sure I could get a gold medal. Lydia |
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Post by sprigmom on Sept 23, 2004 10:04:59 GMT -8
Small update: I called the vet clinic that takes care of our snakes; they do gerbils too. ;D The vet I talked to said that as long as they're not constantly bleeding and they're eating, drinking and playing I shouldn't bother bringing them in. He advised I keep an eye on them and bring 'em in if there's change for the worst. I'm more relaxed now! I sat and watched Buffy for a few minutes earlier; she sure looks chunky!  She was doing a lot of "investigating" her lower region, then scooting to the other end of the tank, scratching the glass, checking out the log house, then back to the other end to "investigate" again. Kinda fun to watch, actually! Thanks Lydia, for your comments. I, too, have wondered about the 2 to 1 question a lot since joining/reading up on websites! I've owned dogs and fish growing up, never anything else. Now since I hit middle age, I've gotten a really weird combo going. I was allergic as a kid, so I couldn't have gerbils, hamsters etc. so I'm a newbie! The reptiles are because of my 9 yr old son...he's now got me hooked. If we had more room and more money I'd have an entire room (or floor!) devoted to critters of all sorts. However, my hubby is getting a bit cranky now about all the friends. We're running out of space! (Ha! You're not the only Olympic contestant, Lydia! Talk about waffling!  ) |
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Post by lydia on Sept 23, 2004 14:42:51 GMT -8
Glad the vet gave you sensible sounding advice Sprigmom.Also glad that they're playing,eating etc. with out a care in the world.Can't be much wrong . Lydia |
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Post by queenofthenile on Sept 23, 2004 16:42:23 GMT -8
Female gerbils are more territorial than males so I would never recommend keeping more than two together. When you add a male (conquest/property) into the mix, you can really escalate aggression. I guess the information *has* changed in the meantime.
Perhaps my gerbs are just exceedingly territorial... I have never had a group of larger than two work out. To be honest, three of my female pairs have declanned. Two were a male-female pair and the other was a female-female pair.
Because of this female territoriality, breeding with two females in the tank presents a problem. You may see them bite each other, or they may kill each others' litters. You may be lucky and everything will be fine. I personally feel that it is a very stressful situation for the gerbs to be in, and I wouldn't do it myself.
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Post by sandy2 on Sept 23, 2004 17:09:30 GMT -8
I did have a female that had some bleeding for a day or so--it went away, and she gave birth normally later on. Perhaps it was a single pup miscarriage? Anyway, don't worry about it unless it continues.
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Post by sprigmom on Sept 23, 2004 18:24:55 GMT -8
Again, thanks everyone! I was holding Buffy earlier tonite and she feels even chunkier than yesterday. She also has a bulgy tummy while stretched up on her haunches. I'll let you all know what develops! |
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Post by lydia on Sept 24, 2004 9:29:00 GMT -8
Thanks Queenofthenile,I've never kept more than 2 gerbils in the same cage.If I had,I'd probably have encountered more problems.
Hope I haven't tempted fate by telling you all,"mine have never fought",the 2 females I've got together now are not litter sisters,but they are over 3 yrs old,so hopefully they'll stay best mates.
Can't wait for your gerbils to have her pups Sprigmom,make sure you have your camera ready,so we can all go ahhhh over how cute they are.
Lydia
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Post by moghedien on Sept 25, 2004 20:59:04 GMT -8
I had a relatively young gerbil experience some bleeding as well around the time she was/could be reaching sexual maturity. Perhaps it could be related to first estrus I don't know. I just kept an eye on her and she was fine, it only seemed to last a day. |
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Post by sprigmom on Sept 26, 2004 6:50:47 GMT -8
Yes, Moghedien, I think you're right, since both girls had it w/in a day of each other, and it only lasted a day each. My friend at Savanna Exotics said the same thing. I'm still sure Buffy's pregnant, tho'. She's getting wider every day and her nipples are starting to surface. I'm thinking of partitioning the tank off with Nibbles on one side and the "parents" on the other. It's a 20 gal long. What do you guys recommend using as the divider? I thought maybe that way Nibbles wouldn't be quite so lonely by herself. |
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)They all get along wonderfully; 
I'm very lucky, having now read how the girls could get nasty w/each other over Coal! Still keeping an eye out though... 
(Went and got a metal holder for it. Gonna use the lid from my smaller bottle. )
She was doing a lot of "investigating" her lower region, then scooting to the other end of the tank, scratching the glass, checking out the log house, then back to the other end to "investigate" again. Kinda fun to watch, actually! 
)