Blood / scabs on one ear and squeaking in the night?

[soloblizzard]

Hi, I have a 2ish year old gerbil, who's beginning to look a bit frail. He's thinner than he used to be (the other, younger gerbils in his cage are fine, but it doesn't seem like they're holding all the food back from him) and I'm not sure if that's just old age or maybe a different issue.

His other symptoms are that one of his eyes is constantly slightly more closed than the other so it's about half open. Both eyes, though, always seem to be a bit more closed than they used to be. His ear on that side of his head has a little bit of dried blood / red stuff at the base of it. There is also a little (literally like a speck of) the blood next to his eye. Also, his fur is looking a little bit more brown then usual (he's white, but at the moment it just looks a bit off) but that might just be because I've forgotten to give them a sand bath for a while.

They're all fairly mild looking symptoms, the problem is that I also hear him ( I think it's him anyway) squeaking a lot in the night so he might be in pain slightly.

Do any of you have any idea what might be wrong with him? Is it just old age or is it a specific illness, and is there anything I can do to help? ( Going to the vets is only really a last resort, but it might (only might) be possible if he's in loads of pain)

[betty]

Hello soloblizzard - and sorry to hear your little one isn't on top form. Have you cehcked his teeth (and weight) - always first thing to check with any poorly pets.


Outside of teeth problems: my first thought would be a declan (it always is) so can you just elaborate on your set up? How many gerbils are in the enclosure with him, how long have they been together and how old are they now?

Has anything else changed in the setup itself - new location, new shelves, toys, houses - and other gerbil in the same household.

Otherwise, it could just be that he is getting older faster (anything from 2-4 us a good age for a gerbil) and perhaps has a cholesteatoma (common ear growth in gerbils) and this is unbalancing him - and the red near the eyes could be polyporins not blood - although don't rule blood out as sometimes if the dominant gerbil becomes ill and the other gerbils want to oust him - they could be injuring him (which could explain the squeaking).

Have you felt him all over for scabs - especially on the back and base of the tail - or had a look in his ears? Have you recently started seeing him out on a ledge or shelf on his own? And do you scatter feed on all levels in the enclosure - or is the food usualy kept up on a ledge or up a ladder?

[soloblizzard]

Hi betty, thanks for the reply. I'll try to explain stuff in as much detail as possible

Firstly, his teeth look fine as far as I can tell, but is there a good way to get them to open their mouth to get a better look? They didn't seem overgrown though. I think he now weighs around 79/80g, but he was moving around a lot so I'm not sure that's accurate (when he sat almost still for a moment it seemed to spike up to 150g, but he's definitely not that big). Unfortunately I haven't been recording previous weights so I don't know what the change is.

For the set up: Three male gerbils - Blizzard (the ill one), who is about 2 years old (from a pet shop so not entirely sure of age), and then Apollo and Rocky, who are about 10/11 months old now. They have been together in the same cage for the last 10 months, and were put together when the little ones were about 5 or 6 weeks old. So far there haven't seemed to be any problems and I haven't seen them fighting at all, so I'm not sure it's a declan.

I don't think anything else has really changed, except I've moved the water bottle around a few times (they keep burying it) and given them new bits of cardboard. The only other thing that's different from normal is that I think it's been longer than normal since I last cleaned them out, but I'm not sure if that would have an affect. No other gerbils in the house.

I don't think they're injuring him, the squeaking seems sort of rhythmic, like perhaps it's happening when he's breathing? I also noticed that when I was looking for scabs today (he doesn't have any) I think I could hear his breathing quite a lot - more than I hear it with the other two when I'm holding them. So possibly it's a respiratory thing? I haven't heard any clicking though.

There aren't many ledges in the enclosure, they spend a lot of time underground burrowing, but I have seen him hiding in a glass jar they have a lot. I'm not sure if he's exactly hiding or not, but he is in there quite a lot.

So with his ear, he doesn't seem to be off balance much as far as I can tell. His energy levels and symptoms vary from time to time a lot. A few weeks ago he was quite lethargic, would run for a little bit and then need to just sit still for a while before moving again. I thought that might have been near his end - he didn't have much energy. But now he seems more energetic, I think, and this morning his eyes were more open and he was significantly more restless than yesterday. This could be to do with time of day, though, normally I don't see them much or get them out at all in the morning, only in the evening, but today it was in the morning. It may be a cholesteatoma but I'm not entirely sure what that would look like and he doesn't seem off balance except for his eye.

Sorry for the long reply, I'm thinking that, yeah, he could just be getting older now and perhaps near his end.

[betty]

Great answers - it really helps clear up a lot.

Jun 16, 2020 0:32:25 GMT -8 soloblizzard said:

Firstly, his teeth look fine as far as I can tell, but is there a good way to get them to open their mouth to get a better look? They didn't seem overgrown though.
Checking teeth is best done when you are holding them in the cup of your hand (thumb and finger on their shoulders) and you can just lift both the cheeks up (with a gentle pinching action between other thumb and finger). You can normally clearly see the bottom teeth and the smaller top teeth, if you are able yourself, or have a friend, you can gently slide in a clean biro casing (or similar) to open the mouth slightly so you can see that the bottom ones aren't too long - basically if you can't see the ends of the bottom teeth when the mouth is open the bottom teeth could be too long.

I think he now weighs around 79/80g, but he was moving around a lot so I'm not sure that's accurate (when he sat almost still for a moment it seemed to spike up to 150g, but he's definitely not that big). Unfortunately I haven't been recording previous weights so I don't know what the change is.
Yes, they are quite fidgetty - so best way to weigh is let them have a run around somewhere, then using scales on a completely flat surface pop a fresh treat or mealworm on then palce the gerbil above it. They will moentarily stay still to sniff the treat and you get your weight. Alternatively - catch them in a tub, put the whole tub with them in it on the scales - take the weight - then let them out of the tub and reweigh the tub and substract from the first weight. and yes, if you haven't ever recorded their weight before - looking for weight changes when they apper ill is impossible - but now you have a rought weight as a starting point so we can go from there. Also, anything from 70g up to 110g is 'normal' for a male gerbil, it is the speed of change that is the issue.

For the set up: Three male gerbils - Blizzard (the ill one), who is about 2 years old (from a pet shop so not entirely sure of age), and then Apollo and Rocky, who are about 10/11 months old now. They have been together in the same cage for the last 10 months, and were put together when the little ones were about 5 or 6 weeks old. So far there haven't seemed to be any problems and I haven't seen them fighting at all, so I'm not sure it's a declan.
Anywhere between 6 months to a year is the 'maturing zone' for the pups so what that means is that they are are now fully fertile and hormonally charged males at this turning point and it can sometimes be the trigger for a dominance change. It doesn't have to become a declan if the older gerbil accepts the change and the new leader allows him to stay - or the older gerbil maintains his dominance as it was. You don't often see a declan coming if it is your first one so that fact they look normal now and in the past isn't always a factor - you just need to be aware of the signs of one - but as you said there hasn't been any chasing, there are no scabs and noone is sleeping high up on their own - this all sounds good so far.

I don't think anything else has really changed, except I've moved the water bottle around a few times (they keep burying it) and given them new bits of cardboard. The only other thing that's different from normal is that I think it's been longer than normal since I last cleaned them out, but I'm not sure if that would have an affect. No other gerbils in the house.
Perhaps offer then two water bottles for the mean time if you can on opposite sides of the set up - just becasue this will keep them hdrated if they often bury one, and it prevents the dominant gerbil from keeping control of the water bottle in a bullying situation. This applies to all set up - not just ones with possible issues - gerbils can be real bullies. Cleaning out probably hasn't got anything to do with it - although a dustier set up could irritate his ear if he does have an ear issue.

I don't think they're injuring him, the squeaking seems sort of rhythmic, like perhaps it's happening when he's breathing? I also noticed that when I was looking for scabs today (he doesn't have any) I think I could hear his breathing quite a lot - more than I hear it with the other two when I'm holding them. So possibly it's a respiratory thing? I haven't heard any clicking though.
Great news on the no scabs - and yes breathing issues can come with age - not always an infection - and perhaps can explain the regular squeaking at night. Of course you are hearing it at night more due to other sounds being absent so it is possible he is squeaking gently all the time but you can't hear it. Perhps a reason he hides in the jar alone as he can be more comfortable without being laid on by the others? Obvoiusly that is only a suggestion - and only a vet (or someone with experience in chest listening can determine that).

There aren't many ledges in the enclosure, they spend a lot of time underground burrowing, but I have seen him hiding in a glass jar they have a lot. I'm not sure if he's exactly hiding or not, but he is in there quite a lot.
See above.

So with his ear, he doesn't seem to be off balance much as far as I can tell. His energy levels and symptoms vary from time to time a lot. A few weeks ago he was quite lethargic, would run for a little bit and then need to just sit still for a while before moving again. I thought that might have been near his end - he didn't have much energy. But now he seems more energetic, I think, and this morning his eyes were more open and he was significantly more restless than yesterday. This could be to do with time of day, though, normally I don't see them much or get them out at all in the morning, only in the evening, but today it was in the morning. It may be a cholesteatoma but I'm not entirely sure what that would look like and he doesn't seem off balance except for his eye.
Yes, it can always vary depening on temperature, time of day, access to food and water and the balance of friendship in the set up. I often tell the story of a 3 year old dad who was always lethargic in the enclosure, eyes closed, flattened out and I thought he was at his end - so took him into my special care tank with me there all the time and he perked up totally - and lived another year and a half. I think his sons were bullying him (I had often seen them humping him and hard grooming his head) so assumed that that was what was making him look ill? I'll never know for sure - but I certainly do know that gerbils can change characters when they switch clans - so perhaps this has something to do with his existing clan (like we are stuck with our own families and I often wonder what my other lives could have been? Maybe that's just me!!!!!).

Also ear trouble doesn't always start with a loss of balance - and often you can't see the early effects of loss of balance in the busy enclosure they are in, as it is three dimensional and there is a lot of changing direction and jumping so they sort of look OK - however having them out on a flat (but not slippy) surface like a carpetted staircase - you can see their overall blance much better.

[soloblizzard]

Ok thank you so much for your help. Checking on him again today, energy levels are still varying a lot. I'll try and get another water bottle for them, I thought I had a spare one already but it turns out it's broken. I also just tried to get another look at his teeth and they seem fine but again, he won't really let me get a good look at them so I'll try again tomorrow. His balance seems fine, I got him out on a flat surface but I'll have to keep an eye on it in future. Thanks for your help, I guess I'll just have to see how it goes from here

[betty]

Hope everything is still ok soloblizzard?

Sometimes though - once you start watching them for something - you start seeing all sorts of new things just because you are watching them more often!!! It beomces an obsession everytime you go in the room...

[soloblizzard]

Hi betty, at the moment everything is still going fine. Looks more like a growth on his ear now rather than just blood, but it might just be a slightly odd scab. I'll post another update if anything changes