|
Post by betty on Oct 7, 2020 5:33:06 GMT -8
What sort of thumping - are you sure it wasn't just thumping because of something else in the room?
Did you try again after you saw they were settled?
There will always be a bit of argy bargy when they first go together as they need to decide on rankings so distract them while they sort it out - and if it gets heated (but not ball fight) throw in yummy treats, a toilet roll or sand bath.
Hmm.
|
|
|
Post by nixee on Oct 7, 2020 9:42:41 GMT -8
Nothing changed in the room, the first time when she was in the nest she was just kind of frozen in place with her face smushed in a corner and she didn't react to Parsnip grooming her. Then I distracted Parsnip for a while with treats and Turnip still didn't move. Then the next time Parsnip went to Turnip, Turnip turned around and started thumping.
After I separate them after intros, Parsnip is totally non-fazed, doing gerbily things, and Turnip is frozen in a corner for a bit, she doesn't try to burrow or thump or anything, just sits there not moving at all. Then slowly she goes back to normal, kissing, no scent marking, no stress after swaps.
A few hours after the second swap I tried again and it didn't go well. This time Turnip didn't want to be groomed at all, I let Parsnip chase her a little bit then distracted her with treats. While Parsnips was eating, Turnip went up to her and sniffed a bit, but as soon as Parsnip started sniffing back, they went into a ball fight and I separated them very quickly.
Turnip was again not moving for a little bit, then back to normal. She has a lot of interest in Parsnip, doesn't try to hide and is always trying to climb to the other side.
I think the problem is that Turnip is crawling and Parsnip is sprinting. She is just crazy active, energetic, impatient and probably very bored. I gave Parsnip her wheel back hoping it will slow her down a bit. I will give them another week with no intros or disturbances to see if Turnip seems more ready.
What do you think? Sorry for the wall of text, I really appreciate all the input. I just read 50 pages of the behavior threads for some tips but each situation is so different.
|
|
|
Post by betty on Oct 8, 2020 15:08:46 GMT -8
No worries - these things are all unique. It is as much about the individual gerbils as it is about the person doing the intro and the whole environment for it.
Ball fights in intro aren't always a definite no no either - so there is still hope at least.
I would certainly give them another week in the split with perhaps like you say Parsnip keeps the wheel - and try again - you just need to get to a point where Turnip doesn't even care anymore. That is what you need.
As long as Parsnip can push her around all she wants without a reaction - they will split together. However, if she pushes too much or Turnip isn't one to be bullied - then they aren't compatible anyway (one always has to be able to bully the other one without any consequences).
However, too much bullying - even IF Turnip accepts it - probably isn't an ideal clan anyway? Imagine knowing that Turnip is living in that kind of abusive partnership for ever more?
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Oct 9, 2020 13:53:54 GMT -8
deinite?
|
|
|
Post by nixee on Oct 16, 2020 13:16:57 GMT -8
Hello again. Tomorrow is week 4 finished. I'm totally confused and lost my confidence.
There is nothing but good signs. Parsnip is grooming Turnip through the mesh all the time. Turnip usually initiates it by sticking her face through and closes her eyes and doesn't try to groom Parsnip. Still sleeping in each other's nests, no scent marking at all, relaxed splits, sitting next to each other etc.
And yet when they are together it's a drama. They are constantly trying to get to each other. They have become amazingly adept at it so twice they managed to jump over. And one time I tried a short introduction. All 3 times Turnip would have none of the grooming and she ran off and puffed up like a balloon, followed by hiding and stomping and I separated them.
When I put them back after, it's like it never happened, they are both relaxed, Turnip doesn't freeze and hide in a corner anymore, usually she goes right back to trying to get to other side or eating etc.
My gut instinct says I have become too sensitive to signs of fighting and am not giving them enough time to play fight for dominance. None of the adult gerbils I paired ever reacted this same way, they were very cautious and didn't immediately start chasing each other. I have read younger gerbils are more prone to play fight, is that true?
Do I let it go on longer next time, considering the positive signs? Am I being too cautious? I'm very prepared for a ball fight with gloves, box etc ready so I'm not afraid of the damage so much, but of resetting 4 weeks of progress.
|
|
|
Post by betty on Oct 16, 2020 16:16:40 GMT -8
What have you go to lose - give it a proper session.
I often start to sidetrack them in a more nerve-wracking intro - so I have a made dust bath, a toilet roll, some hay, a bendy bridge and some mealworms (favourite treat) all ready on the side - as well as my dividing pot before I take out the divide.
I always don't feed them the night before if I remember - and also do one final side swap about half and hour before I am ready to remove the split - to wake them up and have them alert.
I am master of plan ahead now with having done so many - but then I am more confident to try them for longer because I have my plan in place. Only a few haven't worked out for me and it is usually a ball fight within the first hour that decides it for me. After that I keep an eye and keep popping in more distractions every hour or so until I can't stay up any longer. If they have been totally fine I am happy and go to bed; if not but only mildly, I take them into my bedroom that night to listen out.
Only if I am really worried, I put the divide back until I am up again the next day.
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Oct 16, 2020 22:41:59 GMT -8
I never know if people are referring to US or UK gallons, what is the minimum in the UK? Your database sounds really interesting, is it available for public reading? I would be happy to link the Dutch ones as soon as I'm on my computer as it's hard on the phone. Sadly gerbils aren't very popular here. We keep gerbils and other animals at my work and a lot of people who come here don't even know what they are, they think they are rats or mice 😫 And finding a vet who knows anything about them has been impossible. I keep reading things like "my gerbil has an UTI" and I'm flabbergasted and jealous that there are vets out there who can identify and treat a gerbil UTI or pancreatitis or anything else. The most I can get out of them here is antibiotics "just in case" Sorry I can't help with your most recent post. But I just noticed that I hadn't replied to the above older post, apologies for that. Database may have been an overly strong term for it, it's more like a bunch of notes lol (on PC), I've posted some of the data from it around here (can't remember which threads though) but I haven't posted the complete lot. I can PM you it if you like? Any luck with the Dutch link(s)?
|
|