Thea
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Post by Thea on Mar 5, 2021 4:20:17 GMT -8
Hi, just wanted to ask a question about the dyed biscuits in food mixes. I use a few different foods but one of them is gerri gerbil, and this is a mix that has the dyed biscuits. I take quite a few of them out, but should I take them all out? There are barely any at all in the mix I'm currently giving Pippa and Mali, but I want to be on the safe side.
Thanks,
Thea
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Mar 5, 2021 8:13:53 GMT -8
Those biscuits shouldn't be dangerous at all (the dyes will be food safe) but I know most gerbils don't like them. I would be careful taking anything out of a mix though because it can unbalance it nutritionally and potentially remove important vitamins and minerals.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Mar 5, 2021 8:23:11 GMT -8
Okay, thanks! I've just seen people saying they're toxic and can kill them over time and that scared me too much not to post. You say it unbalances it nutritionally to take them out (which I can understand), and although this isn't on the same topic, is it bad that I mix foods together? I do the amount that I've seen people suggesting, I do mainly gerri gerbil/similar mix, and then I add some nature's touch and burgess as they enjoy both. Is mixing in the nature's touch messing up the nutritional values?
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Mar 5, 2021 8:40:15 GMT -8
Mixing foods is generally fine, and can sometimes be a way to balance out shortcomings of a particular food, or just provide extra variety. If all the foods you're are complete and balanced in themselves, you can't really go wrong. Nature's Touch isn't a complete and balanced mix in itself but you can still mix in smaller quantities for variety. I use it for this purpose myself.
I've never heard of the Gerri Gerbil pellets being toxic. There are concerns about whether some food dyes or additives are really healthy, so it's best to avoid them as much as possible (they're only for our benefit anyway), but I think, unless the formula has changed, any major and immediate issue with Gerri Gerbil would have been spotted by now. I see it a lot on social media that once a certain product is deemed to be maybe not the best thing for your pet, it turns into a game of Chinese whispers and by the end, it's absolutely toxic and will definitely kill them!
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Mar 5, 2021 9:36:18 GMT -8
Thank you for letting me know! Yes the mixes that I use together are all mixes that I've seen people mix together before (Generally I use ones I listed above, and burgess nuggets as they quite enjoy them) so should be fine.
I understand with the Chinese whispers - it can start with a debate with whether or not the dyes in them are safe, then someone will guess they aren't and before we know it that's the general idea!
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Post by betty on Mar 5, 2021 10:58:12 GMT -8
Yes, there is very little science on the subject so I think people anthropomorphize things a lot (assume what is good/bad for humans is good/bad for other animals). Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.
Would you also be suprised to know that nothing is really brown in food manufacture? Most food companies have to ADD brown colours to food to make it look palatable (tinned cat and dog food is often actually grey) - so don't be fooled by natural either. Always think both ways: like said above - if it was toxic fast - everyone would know.
Long-term toxic is a difficult one - as again - no science and too many variables (lifestyle/chemicals in the home/stress/activity/etc).
In general, most additives probably aren't as healthy as just natural foods - but if you had to feed your animals just natural foods - their food would cost 10 times the price (you have seen the price of erins ark food?) and you might not get the balance right if you make it yourself - just like with processed human foods. If we all ate organic, unprocessed foods (properly) we would most likely be much healthier and live longer.
Interesting thread for sure.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Mar 5, 2021 11:40:33 GMT -8
Thanks betty - definitely agree with everything.
I didn't know that about the brown biscuits, and now that I think of it there are quite a few different brown biscuits in Pippa and Mali's mix that could well be dyed (gerbil safe dog biscuits that came in a mix I got from a pet shop - and you mentioned dog food).
And as you say, it would be basically impossible to tell if they did cause damage in the long term as we basically have no evidence on it.
Yes I've seen the Erin's Ark food - and I so wish I could use it but I'm not sure if I'd want to pay that much/ get food delivered. I believe Mark uses it (which is great), but a very good point there - we as humans eat a fair share of processed foods, so it isn't really different for gerbils as long as they have some natural things like seeds/flowers/veggies.
Thank you again - some new things to think about!
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Post by Markpd on Mar 8, 2021 11:54:44 GMT -8
Yes I do use it, and although it's relatively expensive, it isn't 10x as much though as betty implied . I remember we had a conversation about it vs gerbil gerri mix at pets at home, I think Erin's food was ~50% more? IIRC! Was it? (I don't want to look all through our mega thread ) As I only have a pair of gerbils it doesn't make much odds to me, but I would reconsider if I had a lot more!
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Mar 8, 2021 12:06:49 GMT -8
Haha yeah, it's around 2-3x more expensive than gerri gerbil, I think. Gerri gerbil is £3 for 850g (although currently on offer at p@h for £2). That is true, I'm still tempted to try Erin's Ark some time to see if the girls like it
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Post by Markpd on Mar 8, 2021 12:15:52 GMT -8
Ah ok, I was a little way off then! , I recently ordered a new bag from Erin's ark, 1.5kg was ~£17 delivered. [edit] Forgot to say earlier, I also can't be bothered to make and mix my own gerbil food!
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Mar 8, 2021 13:25:11 GMT -8
No, it's really good that you're using it! Probably one of the best foods you can buy. I'd love to make my own gerbil food mix and I think I will (it would be a fun 'project' too!) but I can't find most of the ingredients you need online.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Mar 8, 2021 14:26:54 GMT -8
I bought 2.5kg of food from Getzoo for £30 including delivery. I think works out a similar price to Erin's Ark. I had to freeze some of it though as it will last ages.
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Post by betty on Mar 8, 2021 15:02:59 GMT -8
Sorry, yes - it is about 10 times the cost of the base mix I use (Erins is around £12 per kg - mines about £1.50 per kg because I buy whole sacks).
But, I was just fanning it up - as obviously I buy loads of seeds and stuff on top of mine (but then because of that, I feed less of mine - so it is even cheaper per feed I suppose?).
Either way - you get what you pay for basically - so Erins food in my mind is worth every penny if gerbils eat it all - as it saves you faffing around adding all sorts of other bits and throwing away the wasted bits?
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Post by gerbilord on Mar 9, 2021 4:35:35 GMT -8
Erins food is good and the gerbils nom it all up, but it is expensive. I personally prefer to pay more as the gerbils like it a lot more than the gerri one I used to get, and it is less processed etc. If I did get the gerri food then I'd be adding all sorts of other seeds and whatnot in it and stressing if it was the right ratio of everything so it saves me that faff. Although if there is one thing I'd change it is that they add in some mealworms. (Dried obviously.) I want the mealworms!
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xjvd
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Post by xjvd on Mar 9, 2021 7:27:58 GMT -8
As I only have a pair of gerbils it doesn't make much odds to me, but I would reconsider if I had a lot more! I totally agree with this! The cost of food is minor considering gerbils eat so little anyway. (Unless you have hundreds of gerbils... which I assume is the number that betty has!) I might as well spend the extra to get something better. Erin's Ark doesn't ship to where I'm located tho. (Either way, I've always been slightly skeptical of how they don't provide a GA)
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