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Post by miche987 on May 1, 2021 11:38:59 GMT -8
 Hi, I am new to gerbils and just had a very sad death of my first gerbil, Hopper. I’m not exactly sure of his age as I got him at a pet store and they thought he was 6 months old (but who knows!). I had him for three months and suddenly one day he looked ill. I took him to the vet and she said he is most likely diabetic and that he didn’t have much time to live. He died four hours later. Needless to say I am terribly sad and feeling absolutely guilty for not noticing the signs! Especially his excess drinking of water (but since he was my first, I thought that was the normal amount and that the second gerbil I got was drinking too little!). Which brings me to my food question. I started Hopper out on pellets but he wouldn’t touch them. So I started giving him Higgins Vita Garden, which is a seed mix. I thought it was good as it has 15% protein. But now I wonder if this food didn’t contribute to his illness? I have added pellets to the seed mix for Murph, my surviving buddy, and his new friend George (they are in a split cage right now). However, Murph seems like he is not touching the pellets. I have a photo of the nutritional information for the seed mix I have. Could anyone take a look and give me their views on whether this is a healthy mix to use as a primary food source for my little guys? Thanks so much for any advice. |
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Post by Thelodar on May 1, 2021 13:47:59 GMT -8
I'm so sorry to hear about your gerbil 😔
May I ask why they decided it was diabetes? Did they do a necropsy?
I have very mixed feelings on food. Across the board vets recommend pellets so that gerbils cannot pick and choose which components of the diet to eat because this leads to over consumption of some nutrients (like fat) and insufficiencies of others. I think this is very sound advice. My gerbils definitely leave behind certain components of their food. But I've heard experienced gerbil breeders say hay based food must be avoided and every gerbil pellet seems to be hay based. I do not know the basis for saying gerbils shouldn't consume hay as a mainstay, but hearing breeders say they've experienced malnourished juveniles on these diets is enough to worry me. Add to that, as far as I know, there is no set standard for mins and maxes for nutrients in rodent food and you have me feeling completely helpless when it comes to picking food. I recently learned that gerbils have much higher magnesium requirements than many other rodents. Do pet food companies know? Do they formulate their gerbil food with this in mind? No idea, magnesium content isn't even on the label.
So don't feel bad. You should be able to trust that any food marketed for gerbils should be healthy for them as a staple diet. That may not be the case, but it's certainly not your fault. I don't know what the answer is unfortunately.
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Post by miche987 on May 1, 2021 16:38:40 GMT -8
I'm so sorry to hear about your gerbil 😔 May I ask why they decided it was diabetes? Did they do a necropsy? I have very mixed feelings on food. Across the board vets recommend pellets so that gerbils cannot pick and choose which components of the diet to eat because this leads to over consumption of some nutrients (like fat) and insufficiencies of others. I think this is very sound advice. My gerbils definitely leave behind certain components of their food. But I've heard experienced gerbil breeders say hay based food must be avoided and every gerbil pellet seems to be hay based. I do not know the basis for saying gerbils shouldn't consume hay as a mainstay, but hearing breeders say they've experienced malnourished juveniles on these diets is enough to worry me. Add to that, as far as I know, there is no set standard for mins and maxes for nutrients in rodent food and you have me feeling completely helpless when it comes to picking food. I recently learned that gerbils have much higher magnesium requirements than many other rodents. Do pet food companies know? Do they formulate their gerbil food with this in mind? No idea, magnesium content isn't even on the label. So don't feel bad. You should be able to trust that any food marketed for gerbils should be healthy for them as a staple diet. That may not be the case, but it's certainly not your fault. I don't know what the answer is unfortunately. Thanks so much for your thoughts and sympathy! I appreciate the reassurance a lot. The vet wasn’t able to run any diagnostics on Hopper while he was alive because the shock of an xray or a temperature check could have killed him. She did say there were other possible causes; however, my description of how much he was drinking and urinating, as well as his difficulties breathing, made diabetes the most likely cause. There was no necropsy. In the end, you are right — I have to trust that the gerbil specific food I have is as healthy as possible. |
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Post by yeti218 on May 3, 2021 9:34:12 GMT -8
I’m not a food expert, but according to a gerbil breeders food ranking list which I consult, Higgins vita garden is rated as “good”, so I would let yourself off the hook. Really sorry to hear about your little guy. that said, there are all kinds of extremely bad pet foods out there for every pet, so although I agree with thelodar that in an ideal world, you “should” be able trust that foods marketed towards a specific animal are safe and balanced. I definitely do not believe this is the case. I like to consult with other owners who are food savvy (there’s some people on this forum that have done excellent research) or look up in depth nutritional reviews (you can find these easily for dog and cat foods, less so for gerbils). Here’s the list if anyone’s interested. www.moonstonegerbils.com/gerbil-diet-reviews |
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Post by Scott on May 3, 2021 10:45:37 GMT -8
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Post by Thelodar on May 3, 2021 15:40:18 GMT -8
I've also consulted that list and follow her advice because she is a very experienced breeder. However, I have no idea where she gets her opinions on what's good and bad. What are they based on? If there is research I'd love to read it.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on May 3, 2021 16:04:47 GMT -8
I've also consulted that list and follow her advice because she is a very experienced breeder. However, I have no idea where she gets her opinions on what's good and bad. What are they based on? If there is research I'd love to read it. discusses gerbil nutritional requirements with the relevant research. The nutritional ranges used in the article are probably directly or indirectly based on that research. It's also based on the quality of the ingredients. Corn is high in sugar and not really something gerbils like to eat when dried, so it's considered a low quality filler and an abundance of it in a mix isn't a good thing. Timothy hay isn't considered a good ingredient because it's very fibrous and gerbils are less well adapted to high fibre diet than rabbits and guinea pigs. There are different approaches to diet though. This article considers wheat, barley and oats to be important staples. European mixes focus far more heavily on millets and grass seeds as a large part of the diet, then fatty seeds, then cereals such as wheat, and other things. |
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Post by Markpd on May 9, 2021 11:10:27 GMT -8
I'm so sorry to hear about your gerbil 😔 May I ask why they decided it was diabetes? Did they do a necropsy? I have very mixed feelings on food. Across the board vets recommend pellets so that gerbils cannot pick and choose which components of the diet to eat because this leads to over consumption of some nutrients (like fat) and insufficiencies of others. I think this is very sound advice. My gerbils definitely leave behind certain components of their food. But I've heard experienced gerbil breeders say hay based food must be avoided and every gerbil pellet seems to be hay based. I do not know the basis for saying gerbils shouldn't consume hay as a mainstay, but hearing breeders say they've experienced malnourished juveniles on these diets is enough to worry me. Add to that, as far as I know, there is no set standard for mins and maxes for nutrients in rodent food and you have me feeling completely helpless when it comes to picking food. I recently learned that gerbils have much higher magnesium requirements than many other rodents. Do pet food companies know? Do they formulate their gerbil food with this in mind? No idea, magnesium content isn't even on the label. So don't feel bad. You should be able to trust that any food marketed for gerbils should be healthy for them as a staple diet. That may not be the case, but it's certainly not your fault. I don't know what the answer is unfortunately. Thanks so much for your thoughts and sympathy! I appreciate the reassurance a lot. The vet wasn’t able to run any diagnostics on Hopper while he was alive because the shock of an xray or a temperature check could have killed him. She did say there were other possible causes; however, my description of how much he was drinking and urinating, as well as his difficulties breathing, made diabetes the most likely cause. There was no necropsy. In the end, you are right — I have to trust that the gerbil specific food I have is as healthy as possible. Firstly, sorry to hear about your gerbil  In the short-ish time I've been here I rarely see diabetes mentioned for gerbils, I did suggest it once myself to someone here who had an ill gerbil, turned that gerbil had kidney disease. Also, (type 2) diabetes from diet issues (and typically being over weight) isn't a quick killer, if the diet wasn't altered and the supposed diabetes carried on as is I would expect it to shorten the gerbils life, but not end it in hours! Unless they were implying your gerbil had type 1 diabetes? In such a case they would rapidly lose weight as well as drink lots. But can't say I've heard of T1 diabetes for them, but I'm no expert! 
Anyway, I think it's more likely it was kidney disease, as that seems to be relatively common in gerbils, and if they don't get fluids via injection, can kill in hours.
Just speculation on my part though!
To the guys who've had gerbils with kidney disease, did they suffer rapid weight loss near the end?
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Post by betty on May 9, 2021 15:46:14 GMT -8
Loved that article link by the way - thanks for that resfresher. Things like this always give me more questions to ask!
Did notice in the table it said: Life Span - Years - >4 (more than 4 years of age!)
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), late 70s
