Do all seeds have a lot of fat in them?

[sparkbubble]

Hello, I was informed that oxbow is not enough for gerbils. I kind of thought that seeds were supposed to be fattening and grains were treats, so I guess I've been underfeeding. I fed vita Prima hamster & Gerbil food with oxbow to my previous gerbils (3 tsp daily, equal parts), but they became more than 10 grams overweight. To my understanding, most of the grains and seeds ( i.e. millet, barley, wheat, linseed, sunflower, pumpkin, rice) are labeled as 'treats' that should be fed in 'small amounts.' that, or they expand in the stomach and kill them.
Is the conclusion that all seeds make gerbils fat in anything but minute quantities? Should I just be feeding them very very tiny weekly portions like one or two seeds a week? what seeds/grains do you use?

[PipSqueak]

Not all seeds are fattening and they are healthy when used in the right proportions. It’s not exactly that you’ve been underfeeding them, that specific mix just doesn’t have the right quantities of protein, fat, etc. I make my own mix, I use the recipe made by Fins and Whiskers on YouTube. I remember that LilyandDaisy made some changes to this recipe to better suit the gerbils needs so I will try to find that post and she might have something to add to this. I do know that Higgins sunburst is a good base mix for gerbils and it has a lot of seeds. The food I make is mostly seeds with some grains such as barely, oats, and whole wheat pasta in it. It has seeds like millet, amaranth, sesame seeds, and fennel seeds. It also has some lentils and a herb mix added into it. I’ll try to do some more research for you and I’ll let you know what I come up with.

[sparkbubble]

I raided my pantry and I now have plain oats, red lentils, uncooked brown and white rice, chia, and dried purple corn (all of the above listed are organic and without any flavorings). Do you know about Quinoa? I've heard it is harmful to human stomachs when undercooked,but gerbs aren't human.

[PipSqueak]

I believe it is safe. I’m pretty sure their food mix has quinoa in it.

[sparkbubble]

thanks!

[LilyandDaisy]

Not all seeds are high in fat. When talking about gerbil nutrition, seeds tend to be divided into two categories: flour seeds and oil seeds. Flour seeds are higher in starch or carbohydrate and lower in fat. They include grains and some other non-grain starchy seeds. Oil seeds are higher in fats and lower in starch.

Grains and flour seeds include:
- Wheat
- Barley
- Oats
- Rye
- Corn
- Millet
- Sorghum
- Amaranth
- Quinoa
- Buckwheat
- Canary seed
etc.

Oil seeds include:
- Sunflower seeds
- Safflower seeds
- Pumpkin seeds
- Niger seeds
- Hemp seeds
- Linseeds/flaxseeds
- Rapeseed
- Sesame seeds
etc.

A gerbil's diet consists largely of grains/flour seeds with some oil seeds, plus fresh or dried herbs, leaves and forage, hay and usually some animal protein such as insects. You can also feed fresh or dried vegetables and fruits, and nuts.

Don't be afraid of fat in your gerbil's diet. Fat in itself doesn't make gerbils fat. Oil seeds tend to be high in protein and minerals and are a healthy part of a gerbil's diet. Oil seeds do make good treats, because they taste good, but that doesn't mean they have to be strictly treats only. While extruded diets (diets that contain a lot of pellets and processed ingredients e.g Oxbow) have a lot of the fat removed, and therefore tend to have lower crude fat levels, whole seed based diets tend to have much higher crude fat levels in the range of 12-16% and this might be just fine for your gerbils. Some gerbils are more prone to weight gain than others and you should weigh them regularly whenever switching to a new food so you can see if it suits them or not. They also might need some dietary changes as they get older and less active.

As Pipsqueak says, Higgins Sunburst is considered one of the better commercial mixes in the US and if you want you could mix in additional seeds and grains, up to about 25% of the total diet. You don't want to go above that really unless you are taking care to balance it all out properly or you risk missing out important nutrients.

[Thelodar]

I actually like pellets and feed Oxbow Garden select myself (Essentials is a bit lower in fat and protein). I switched from seed mixes to pellets after being told repeatedly to by several vets (and because I see the logic in their reasoning). I do still offer one of the seed mixes about twice a week for variety. From all the actual scientific literature I can find (which to be fair is somewhat limited) the protein and fat of Garden Select are within ideal ranges for adult gerbils. I also like that the company has a vet on staff, I assume formulating the food (though I could be wrong). Science Selective is another pellet option if you'd rather stay away from Oxbow.

[sparkbubble]

I don't want to stray off topic, but are there any grains that are high fiber that I should be aware of? I know gerbils don't drink that much (at least, mine don't), so would constipation ever be an issue?

[sparkbubble]

I may have to switch this topic over to a different thread.

[LilyandDaisy]

Jan 5, 2022 5:52:01 GMT -8 sparkbubble said:

I don't want to stray off topic, but are there any grains that are high fiber that I should be aware of? I know gerbils don't drink that much (at least, mine don't), so would constipation ever be an issue?

All grains are quite high fibre but it's not something to be concerned about. Gerbils actually have an interesting adaption where they lengthen their digestive tract in response to a high fibre diet which increases digestion time which allows more nutrients to be absorbed (source linked below). They will also drink as much water as their body needs, as long as it's freely available.

www.academia.edu/22305653/Rodent_Nutrition_Digestive_Comparisons_of_4_Common_Rodent_Species

[sparkbubble]

all right. Thank you!

[Markpd]

Jan 5, 2022 6:07:46 GMT -8 LilyandDaisy said:

Jan 5, 2022 5:52:01 GMT -8 sparkbubble said:

I don't want to stray off topic, but are there any grains that are high fiber that I should be aware of? I know gerbils don't drink that much (at least, mine don't), so would constipation ever be an issue?

All grains are quite high fibre but it's not something to be concerned about. Gerbils actually have an interesting adaption where they lengthen their digestive tract in response to a high fibre diet which increases digestion time which allows more nutrients to be absorbed (source linked below). They will also drink as much water as their body needs, as long as it's freely available.

www.academia.edu/22305653/Rodent_Nutrition_Digestive_Comparisons_of_4_Common_Rodent_Species

Interesting! I think you should post a thread about this in the science section