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Post by lucyw on Mar 27, 2023 11:45:37 GMT -8
My gerbil, Marmite, has been acting very slow and 'tired', she has not been opening her eyes properly but hasn't lost any weight that I can tell and is still accepting food and water. She mainly lies in her nesting box while her sister Storm hops around energetic as ever. They are only a few month old and I have only had them for a month. I am really concerned because this happened to another gerbil I had, Lulu, who gained extreme weight and didn't open her eyes properly. Sadly she passed away. Has anyone had a similar experience or has any advice?
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Post by betty on Mar 28, 2023 8:58:43 GMT -8
Sorry to hear that such a young gerb is looking poorly already and hopefully it is just a behavioural thing within their new clan together.
Have you physically handled her to have a better feel and a good listen. Sometimes gerbils can look puffed up but on handling, you can feel if they have lost weight underneath. Also holding her close you will be able to get a better listen to her breathing and her get a sense of her overall alertness.
While she is out - having her move about on a flat surface can help you see any mobility issues better than watching them in their busy 3D enclosures. Seeing if she is steady, has a tilt, or if otherwise 'not quite right'. All these things can help decide whether she needs a bit of assistance or a vet visit even.
Being so young it could be a number of things - possibly linked to moving to your new enclosure; possibly linked to whether they were a pair before you homed them or became a pair only when you collected them; or just something else that she already had brewing before you collected her.
Have you any more details on Lulu - like her age, what happened before her symptoms and whether it was linked to something previously - like the same cage/food/enrichment/environment.
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Post by lucyw on Mar 28, 2023 10:49:29 GMT -8
Hello, thank you for your reply, it was very helpful! Just a bit of backstory: Lulu seemed to have almost a seizure thing which lasted from the evening but seemed to have gone by the morning, where she was tilting herself up and down and up and down and had her eyes completely closed. She then seemed to be absolutely fine although we were prepared for the worst. A couple of weeks later she started gaining even more weight at an alarming rate. I checked their cage thoroughly just in case they had started hoarding, but found nothing and I hadn't changed the amount of food they were getting before, though I now started decreasing it very gradually.She was hardly moving at all and she sadly passed away within about a week of showing symptoms, this was about two months ago. I was worried about Stella, her sister, being lonely as she was not acting like normal so I made the decision to try the split cage method being very careful with introducing Stella to Marmite and Storm. ( Storm and Marmite were bought together and are sisters) I used the split cage method to try and introduce them but after about a month together they weren't getting on still so I made the decision to separate them and keep them in separate enclosures, which is a hassle for us but it is best for the gerbils and that's what matters.
They now live alone but as they are noisy in the night then they go back in their split cage and go downstairs, which I think Stella likes because she can have other interactions apart from me. Marmite is looking better now which is a relief but I'm still worried about it happening again, and if she might get worse like Lulu did. She is not the dominant one so is smaller then Storm, who is more outgoing, but I think she's not crazy small (comparing her to my cousin's gerbils of a similar age). She accepts food and drink fine and loves bathing in her sand bath. I couldn't see any visible problems when I put her on a flat surface or when I have been picking her up. Do you think these 'seizures' are linked to any illnesses you know about? And thank you so much for your response, it's been really reassuring and helpful even if Marmite isn't out of the woods yet.
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Post by betty on Mar 30, 2023 1:38:37 GMT -8
Thanks for the update. I am no vet of course, but gaining in size rapidly could be a few things we see in gerbils on this forum. The first could be some kind of heart issue that often shows as a very rounded body shape especially under the tummy. Heart issues can cause fluids to build up in the body. The other would be ovarian cysts which can grow rapidly also but are more likely to show up on the sides of the body around the waist area first and almost squarish in shape. Both of these can cause lethargy, reduced grooming and general slowing down. They can also both result in sudden death too. As for Marmite - young gerbils can have seizures - but they are usually mini seizures and they recover well - I think LilyandDaisy knows more about the science of this than I do so hopefully they can step in with more info either way. Her size might be nothing (I have had very small female gerbils) - but of course it could be an outward sign of an individual (and unknown) health issue. Have you actually weighed them both at all to get a guage of where they are? |
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Mar 30, 2023 6:14:36 GMT -8
Some young gerbils are prone to brief seizures as betty says, and they can look like anything from an absence seizure to a tonic-clonic seizure, but I think from evening until the next morning is too long to be that type of seizure. Rapid weight gain is quite unlikely to be from fat so I wouldn't recommend rationing their food. Also you can usually tell if it's fat because the gerbil will feel very well-padded and solid around the shoulders and back of the neck, whereas weight gain from fluid or a tumour is more likely to be noticed in the belly. I have known strange seizure-like episodes to coincide with heart failure in two gerbils (definite heart failure in one gerbil, and probable heart failure in her sister). I'm not certain of the cause, or whether it was the heart failure directly causing those episodes or another condition causing both the heart failure and the episodes. The weight gain with heart failure can be very sudden. Are Luli and Marmite related at all? |
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Post by lucyw on Mar 30, 2023 22:56:55 GMT -8
Thank you for replying. Lulu and Marmite are not related. We don't have electric scales so can't weight then that way but I will try and see if I can find some. Marmite has been fine for the last day or two but I woke up this morning and she is even worse. She's doing a shivery thing and is not running around much. I'm really concerned. She also seems to be smaller if it's possible to lose weight that fast. I have been feeling her for anything unusual and I don't know if it's just because of her weight that I can feel it but there's a tiny lump next to where her tail meets her body. Storm doesn't have it but I don't know if it's just obvious because she is so small. Here is a pretty bad picture of them together, sorry it's so blurry. Marmite is the brown one. photos.app.goo.gl/NN2CH8TgTG6SoVq16 |
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Post by catnut on Mar 31, 2023 13:48:34 GMT -8
I would get a vet appt., shivery could mean she is cooler (try to warm her in your hand or if you have a rice bag, heat it in the microwave for her), or it could mean she is in pain. just try to feed her what she will eat and some cucumber and see if she take water from a spoon. Good luck.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 1, 2023 7:07:54 GMT -8
Thank you for replying. Lulu and Marmite are not related. We don't have electric scales so can't weight then that way but I will try and see if I can find some. Marmite has been fine for the last day or two but I woke up this morning and she is even worse. She's doing a shivery thing and is not running around much. I'm really concerned. She also seems to be smaller if it's possible to lose weight that fast. I have been feeling her for anything unusual and I don't know if it's just because of her weight that I can feel it but there's a tiny lump next to where her tail meets her body. Storm doesn't have it but I don't know if it's just obvious because she is so small. Here is a pretty bad picture of them together, sorry it's so blurry. Marmite is the brown one. photos.app.goo.gl/NN2CH8TgTG6SoVq16Since they are not related but having similar symptoms at such a young age, I would wonder about an environmental cause? It's hard to tell much from the photo. It looks like Marmite could be a bit pear-shaped (bloated or swollen in her lower abdomen) but it's hard to be sure. I had a gerbil with an ovarian cyst who went from very large to much smaller, and very unwell, overnight, and I assumed the cyst had ruptured. But it's quite unusual for gerbils to get ovarian cysts under around 18 months old. I'm not sure about the lump. Could you describe it further? |
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Post by Markpd on Apr 9, 2023 15:53:23 GMT -8
How's Marmite doing?
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), late 70s