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Post by betty on May 8, 2023 12:08:22 GMT -8
It is reasonably common for a male clan bigger than 2 gerbils (that aren't with a parent and all siblings) to declan - and when they do it is most likely to be when they are around the year mark unfortunately. Twos are MUCH more stable generally.
You have done completely the right thing to split into two pairs - and if you follow Lily&Daisy's advice they should hopefully settle down into two balanced pairs. Defo don't share their enrichments/houses/etc between enclosures - once it has been in one enclosure - mark it if you can - and no sharing.
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Post by icecontroller2529 on May 8, 2023 23:28:45 GMT -8
How are they doing today, how was the night?
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Post by sammymay on May 9, 2023 2:42:55 GMT -8
Thank you. My son gives them a run in his room most days so obviously they won’t be together for that anymore but could he still use the room for the 4 if he does it separately in the two pairs? So for example he could have two in there for a run and then later give the other two a run or is it not a good idea? They are doing well today. Both the bullied one (cosmos) and his buddy Tango are sleeping together
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Post by sammymay on May 9, 2023 2:46:28 GMT -8
I just feel sad that they’ve had to split. Do you sense the loss?
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Post by sammymay on May 9, 2023 2:47:08 GMT -8
Sorry what I meant was do you think they sense the loss of the other two?
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Post by icecontroller2529 on May 9, 2023 3:22:28 GMT -8
Good morning. So there was no more trouble during the night? The two pairs are fine? That is good to hear. Cosmos and Tango are sleeping together, that's great news. How is the dominant one doing?
About the sense of loss: In the wild, it is part of gerbil life that things change. Gerbils are removed from the clan and go away, it's normal. I have no idea whether your boys are sad now, but I guess they adapt quickly to a new situation, and I guess if anything they are relieved that the former tension is over.
That makes me think of something related: I read that gerbils forget about other gerbils soon. For that reason you should not separate gerbils and put them together again later. For example, when going to the vet with one gerilb, you should take both your gerbils to the vet in the transport box.
Regarding the free roaming with your son: I think it would be a good idea to pause it for a while. The gerbils are in a stressful period right now and they are establishing their new relationships and hierarchies. Therefore, it is wise to have them in an environment with little stimulation, like Lily and Daisy described earlier. Free roaming is something that, from what I have read, can lead to trouble and even declanning anyway, so I wouldn't recommend it at the moment.
What also comes to my mind is the levels. If I am not mistaken you mentioned earlier that you have a gerbilarium with different levels/plateaus/platforms. This is something that can cause trouble. Separate areas can cause gerbils to show territorial behaviour. For example, a gerbil can decide not to let his brother use the upper plateau any more. This can escalate to the level of a declan. Therefore, I recommend to try to avoid giving them access to different levels or compartments at the moment.
Have a good day!
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Post by sammymay on May 9, 2023 3:28:53 GMT -8
Yes the two pairs seen fine. Eventually can we give them free roaming time again but separate in their pairs? My son absolutely loves this time with them. Completely understand that we need to give it a break for a while. What would you say a week?
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Post by sammymay on May 9, 2023 3:30:30 GMT -8
With the gerbilariam it’s the standard design. Wire topper with two platforms and glass tank. The levels need to be there to hold the food etc
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Post by icecontroller2529 on May 9, 2023 3:31:12 GMT -8
Yes the two pairs seen fine. Eventually can we give them free roaming time again but separate in their pairs? My son absolutely loves this time with them. Completely understand that we need to give it a break for a while. What would you say a week? That's for the more experienced people here to answer.
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Post by icecontroller2529 on May 9, 2023 3:35:42 GMT -8
With the gerbilariam it’s the standard design. Wire topper with two platforms and glass tank. The levels need to be there to hold the food etc My recommendation is to have a closer look: Are there any closed areas? English is not my native language and I'm quite busy right now with my work, so sorry if I'm not good with words. What I'm trying to say is that anything that can be used to block off another area can lead to territorial behaviour. For example, if you have a platform that can only be reached via one narrow bridge then that is not good. In that case, I would recommend to either take away that bridge so they cannot reach the platform at all, or add a second bridge to the same platform. I hope you understand what I mean.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on May 9, 2023 4:28:49 GMT -8
Yes the two pairs seen fine. Eventually can we give them free roaming time again but separate in their pairs? My son absolutely loves this time with them. Completely understand that we need to give it a break for a while. What would you say a week? I'd agree that it's best to stop the free roaming for a while, at least 2-3 weeks. It will be worth it in the long run to have a higher chance of the pairs staying together. Many people use the same space to (separately) free roam different pairs and in some cases it's fine, but in some cases it causes problems when they can smell other gerbils. So when you start free roaming them again, you'll need to keep a close eye out for any issues and be prepared to have separate free roaming spaces if necessary.
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Post by betty on May 9, 2023 10:28:57 GMT -8
Yes indeed - I used to have a shared run for my gerbils and I knew which clans needed to be the first ones in a fresh space and those who weren't so affected by the scent of any other gerbils - and this was with stable clans - so trying it with new/unstable clans would certainly be risky.
If anything, when you restart using the run, I would start with only one pair anyway for the first few times and see how they go when out and about first - with only thir own scents in the space. If all goes to plan, you can then go from there.
As others have said - I do think that gerbils can wonder what on earth has happened when previous clan mates 'dissappear' from their home - or when they arrive in a new home without someone who was previously there - but they just work around it pretty sharpish. Most times it is for the better (after a declan) and they must be so happy to know that that experience is over - or they realise (like after an enclosure change) that it is no worse than before really, just different.
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Post by Markpd on May 20, 2023 4:55:41 GMT -8
Finally is it common for 4 gerbils who seem to have bonded after having them a year to declan? Good to hear that you managed to separate the gerbils before they came to any real harm and they're getting on well after that , are they still getting on well? When gerbils do declan it often seems to be about the 1yr old mark, give or take a few months. Although I haven't collated any hard stats on that, but some data on that might be in my " Please report your clan experiences, good and bad" thread (to name one source). Also, could you report your declan to my thread please? And if you do, if you could use the format + info required I laid out in my report guide, that would be great thanks Btw clans of 3 or more, are more likely to declan than a pair.
Oh and just a little forum use tip, rather than post another message just minutes after a previous one, if you could edit the previous one and add the message there that would be better (edit button is at the top right of your message box). Doesn't spread things out so much then .
On your post on the 8th @7:59pm you missed a couple of useful words in your 1st sentence, was it meant to be "couple of weeks"?
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Post by LilyandDaisy on May 20, 2023 6:40:07 GMT -8
Finally is it common for 4 gerbils who seem to have bonded after having them a year to declan? On your post on the 8th @7:59pm you missed a couple of useful words in your 1st sentence, was it meant to be "couple of weeks"? Yes, it was! I must have forgotten to proofread.
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Post by tanzanyte on May 20, 2023 9:37:40 GMT -8
How are they getting on in their pairs now sammymay? I may have missed this if it's already been said, so apologies if someone else has mentioned it, but with regard to free roaming perhaps you could start back by using your sons bed and not the floor. We found we could put different blankets out so the gerbils weren't on the same covers and then there was no chance of scent marking causing any issues. You can't do a lot if it's on the floor but this may make your gerbils less stressed when you do come to bring playtime back in again, and will at least allow your son the time that he enjoys with them.
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