Older male being bullied??

[TJ's Rodent Ranch]

Hi there, 

I have what may be a situation, but I'm not sure, and if I do, what do I do about it? That is why I am here!

So, I have three males in one tank, Onion, Tunnely Jr, and Sesame. They all seem very happy and content, I've never seen any aggression, they all take turns cleaning each other, and cuddle together, they're very sweet and friendly with me and each other, etc etc, you know what I mean. 
All three males are related, though two are very distantly related. The oldest of the group (onion), who I've actually come to make this thread about, is the father of one, and the uncle of the other. The father had his last litter just before retirement so he's pretty old, about three years. The son (Sesame) is almost a year old (one of his last litter), and the nephew (Tunnely Jr), being the youngest, is around three months. 
When I "built" the clan, I was dubious because of these differences and complications, and gave it a 50/50 to work, with a hawk's eye on them the first few days. 
Fast forward half a year, and I'm where I am now, everything's going great, except for this final detail I noticed yesterday. Now, I've noticed this before, but I didn't think there was anything to it, until I tried intervening.
The oldest, Onion, isn't sleeping in the den with the two youngest. He's a very submissive, sweet boy, and has never shown any dominance or aggression to any gerbil, or myself. Because of this I figured he may be at the bottom of the chain, besides his age, but I'm worried he isn't sleeping in the den with them. 
Like I said above, I noticed this before and didn't think anything of it, until intervening. I coaxed him into the den, bringing him up to the door line (it's a big den so I know there's space) and he went inside, I heard minor squeaks of unsettlement, and then Onion was spit right back out. Does this sound like they're being territorial over the house?
I've noticed Sesame sleeping where Onion does, in a den he dug, sometimes Tunnely Jr does too, but I've rarely (I say rarely to avoid saying never) noticed Onion sleeping in Sesame and Tunnely Jr's den. 
I'm just worried they're being protective of their den, and for some reason won't let specifically him in. 

I hope I haven't made you read this long post for nothing, although I also hope this isn't something to be worried about... strange balance. 


Thanks so much for reading this, and for any replies you may have  

[betty]

You could go one of two ways really - both to suit how you think the older one is feeling.

If you have the space, I would take out Onion into his own retirment pad - however, if they are not showing signs of actively chasing him outside of that single den it could be that they can stay together (albeit with some internal layout upgrades) so he has company but enough space and sources of important things that they don't have to share anything or get control over any one place or resource.

I have had two family clans myself - with a dad and his different age pups - where the younger ones between 4-12 months just want to become successful males as they naturaly would. Dad isn't attacked or hounded - they just don't always want to share with him. These teenagers/young males take on a more dominant role in the clan (waiting for their chance with a female) - but don't quite want to oust dad BEFORE the female comes along as, well, he's taught them everything.

One of my dads then got ill and I thought they would start rejecting him - but they didn't. And when he passed, they just carried on together as before. It was eventually one of the youngest pups who took over as boss - all very smoothly.

The other dad set up didn't go as well as I noticed the dad was looking really lethargic and ruffled, real deaths door stuff, and while he was curled up in the open (like yours he wasn't always in the nest) I saw that his sons were always humping him. I assumed he was giving off a hormone of some kind that had confused them - but I didn't want the poor chap to be pestered while he was ill.

I set up a hospital cage that night and gave him everything he needed to make his last few days as comfortable as possible. By morning he was a different man. Totally back to normal and ready for action. I then thought "I wonder if the constant humping was what was actually making him sleep outside and become exhausted?" - so I kept them apart permananently. He went from strength to strength, so much so that I paired him with an older different gerbil (they went together in record time) and they lived together for more than a year together before eventually passing.

Sometimes family ties aren't what is important for a gerbil - it is the individual enclosure dynamics.



*I always clarify that I had lots of space and spare gerbils to conduct all my splits and intros, which I know is not always possible for others.

[TJ's Rodent Ranch]

Hi there,

Thank you so much for the quick reply and great advice.

Some good news, as I'm writing this, he's sleeping in the den with the two of them. No, I've never seen them chase each other, and I've never seen any humping, he's an old guy so he's often sleeping or laying about, but he's very strong and happy still.

I've thought often about putting him in a retirement pad of his own. Still, he just loves the other gerbils so much and is so social and friendly that I would feel terrible taking him away from the other gerbils that have already accepted him (besides this...). I just couldn't put him somewhere alone, and I don't have another gerbil his age that could go with him. I do have one, that was actually in a clan of three, Onion being one of the three, and it involved a nasty declanning. Since they've already bit and had that history (mainly the other gerbil, Onion was the one being picked on) I don't think they would get back together very well. I have attempted a split cage with those two already, and it didn't end well either. I take full responsibility for that since I haven't had very successful split cage experiences in the past, but I don't think they'll ever go together again.
Besides the four that I already have, I don't have any other options for him, besides getting him some other males, but if they were younger, would the same thing happen, and they would start to want to exclude him? I could adopt an older male and split cage them, possibly with better luck due to the fact they would be strangers, essentially, but I don't know if that would be better... Sorry for my ramblings, I'm kind of thinking out loud.

Thank you for all the advice, I'll keep an update if anything new happens. For now, I think their relationship is stable enough to keep them together... but time will tell. I will definitely take action at the first sign of trouble, and I do have an open cage ready for him if he needs it.