Outdoor digging/exploring box?

[Markpd]

I thought I had a thread about this a few years back where we discussed this, but I don't. Must have been a discussion in another thread, so no thread revival! Anyway....

Many years ago as a young teenager I built a large wooden box, put it in the garden and filled it up with soil, then just let things grow!

At the time I had a hamster (Snowy, an albino with a grey nose, IIRC), and thought it would be great for him if he could explore a bit of (contained) wild, hence the box. 

He loved it, exploring and sniffing around, he especially loved the worm he found once! First thing I knew about it was he was having a tug of war with something, then when I looked more closely I saw he had got hold of a worm! He greedily chomped it down!

I don't recall him ever digging in it, but as I mentioned, he certainly seemed to enjoy exploring it .

I thought about this again a few years ago, about the time I got Blake and Avon, and mentioned it in that (now mystery) thread, but someone made a good point which I don't think I had an answer for then, and consequently I largely forgot about the idea.

The problem was, how do I get them back into the carry cage without the risk of them escaping into the garden!? Neither Avon or Blake, nor Gan or Vila were/are easy to handle, and would occasionally leap from my hand!

I've since realised it's fairly obvious! Lol, all I would need to do is build a box with tall enough sides that they simply can't jump out of it! And the box would be big enough to house the carry cage in it. 

So the logistics would work like this, indoors I would put my boys into the carry cage (where they could only escape in the lounge), I take the carrier down to the garden and put it into the 'nature' exploring box (bearing in mind this box has tall sides, and the soil would be a long way from the top), then I would just open the carry cage and let them make their own way out. When it comes to taking them back, I would either pick them up from inside the box to the carrier, or chase them into it, or close it when they happen to wonder into it, no escape risk . Then take them back in.

A few things to note, this is just for relatively short outings, maybe 1/2 hr or so.

Their would be various hides in there.

The box would have a meshed lid which would be weighted down and I would normally be by the box all the time, so there's no risks from cats, foxes or even birds of prey getting to them! (or worrying them).

If I really had to leave them for a few minutes (e.g to answer the front door, assuming I heard it in the garden! Or go to the loo), the lid would protect them for that short time (hence weighing it down).

But there are others issues, something I didn't consider in my younger days!

What might grow that is poisonous or toxic to gerbils? Could I easily weed these out? Or might small seedlings still be a hazard and not be easily visible for me to weed out?

Would there be bacteria in the soil that could be harmful to them? Or on the plants?

Another thing I thought of is what if slugs and snails visit it? I've heard for dogs that these are a risk due to dogs catching lung worms from them. The best thing would be just to stop them getting in there, but if I had some kind of sealed lid on it, things aren't going to grow well! (and I'd have to water it).

Thoughts? (answers or more problems I haven't thought of!?). 

[LilyandDaisy]

I don't think it's generally a good idea to take gerbils outside because in my experience, they tend to find all the new sounds and smells quite stressful. There is a risk of even a normally placid gerbil getting spooked by a bird or something and leaping out of your hand as well. My brother actually lost one of his first gerbils this way when we were young - she was eventually caught and brought back by our cat (but couldn't be saved) so it was rather traumatic for us all.

There is also the risk of disease from wildlife as well as poisonous plants growing.

I think a better option would be to plant a box of soil with safe plants, keep it indoors or at least covered up outside, and bring it inside for the gerbils to play in.

[Markpd]

Re jumping out of my hand, as per my previous post, I've got that covered, if I needed to pick them up to put them back into the carry cage, it would be done inside the plant box (which would have tall sides they couldn't jump over), i.e the carry cage would be placed (or left as a hidey) in the plant box. So if they did jump out of my hand, they would land back in the plant box, or possibly jump into the plant box side! lol.
(That's sad to hear about your brothers gerbil, poor thing ).

The point about new sounds and smells is a good one, new smells I had thought of, but combined with (probably many) new sounds might be a bit much for them, hmm....
Re disease from wildlife, whilst a meshed lid would keep much of it out, it's not going to stop really small creatures, e.g baby slugs and snails, small/baby insects, even if I used very fine mesh, perhaps fine netting on top of regular 1cm mesh then?

Perhaps the showing stopping point though might be poisonous plants/weeds? Just trying to think of all the weeds that might grow!
I know Dandelion and plantain are safe, I wasn't sure about Hawksbeard, but like Dandelions it's a member of the daisy (Asteraceae) family, so should be ok??

I see chickweed is listed in your safe foods list , but there are so many weeds! Lol, I don't know whether Roberts herb is safe (a member of the geranium family), wild watercress or clover, to name just a few!
After identifying the red leafed like clover weed (with yellow flowers) as Oxalis corniculata (possible common names are creeping wood-sorrel or Procumbent Yellow Sorrel, seems to be conflicting info on that), the gardeners world website says this "Oxalis is poisonous to pets, but its bitter taste should deter most animals from eating it.", now I know!
So yea, just letting it grow wild would be a bit of a minefield! I suppose I could let wild plant box grow over a couple of months, then weed out any poisonous weeds or ones we don't know about, then cover it with fine netting?

I was originally thinking of making quite a large box (to say put), but if I did that I wouldn't be able to move it. So to make it moveable it would have to be much smaller, perhaps the exact same 96 ltr plastic box as I used for my boys sandpen?
Although that's about 1/2 the width I was envisaging and would have much less explorable area, hmm....

[LilyandDaisy]

Where would you get the soil for the box from? I'm just thinking, the safest option when it comes to bacteria would be to buy prepackaged soil and then you would have much more control over what grows than if you dug some soil up to use.

I looked up hawksbeard and it seems like it's not poisonous but quite bitter so not often eaten. Anything oxalis is going to be relatively high in oxalic acid which is poisonous in high quantities but some plants in the oxalis are safe to eat in moderation. I'm unsure on specific species though.

I think I've seen some large plastic storage boxes on wheels which might work better in terms of portability? And if it's on wheels it will be slightly raised which means you can add drainage by punching a few small holes in the bottom. Since you won't be able to ventilate it very much to keep out wildlife, mould growth may be a concern.

[Markpd]

I was thinking of just using garden soil, but I guess not.

Re oxalis, well gardeners world seemed to think that the corniculata variant is poisonous, so that's easier enough to avoid .

Wheels on the boxes wouldn't work. Once past the neighbour's door (on the side) there's no path to the garden (where I'd keep it), and I'm in an upstairs maisonette, so no good there either! . It would have to be carriable (spelling??) or I can't take it upstairs (either daily, or every other day), and in which case it would probably be too small to bother with I think?

And yea I was thinking of drain holes in the bottom too.
With fine netting on the top, wouldn't that be enough to ventilate it properly? (I never said anything about a sealed lid).

[betty]

The suggestion of the sealed lid (when not in use) was to prevent re-seeding with wind-pollinated plants - anything blown in by the wind - and of course bird poop!

There are 2 opposite answers really to this as mentioned above 1) Do it because you want to do it - and try your hardest to do everything you feel you can to keep your gerbils safe in it and moving to and from it. Many people put many different pets outside regularly and feed wild/foraged plants that are growing under similar conditions to your garden it is all a gut feeling of risk. Great caution and forward thinking are required as - as mentioned above by LilyandDaisy - in the case of gerbils, there are a myriad of things that are high risk, scary for the gerbils specifically (as they are almost always startled by shadows overhead) or at least sub-optimal in terms of their safety.

Or 2) Don't do it - as there are a myriad of things that are high risk, scary for the gerbils or at least sub-optimal in terms of their safety.


I personally wouldn't have gerbils outside now (however I may well have done it when I was younger and saw risk/my gerbils in a different way). I do however feed my adult healthy animals unwashed wild and foraged plants and grasses from my own garden and places I deem to be low risk so there is that element of risk for me always. Something I have to be at ease with the results of - as accidents and potential wrong-doings are great leaders of personal change. Thankfully most people only have a bad experience once and it changes their gerbil care rules permanently and forever...

[LilyandDaisy]

I was assuming that the lid would need to be either solid or very fine mesh to prevent seeds falling in, which would limit the ventilation.

It is down to personal risk tolerance. There are certainly ways to mitigate the risk with something like this and 99 times out of 100 it would probably be fine, but personally I don't think I could ever get over it if the 1/100 happened to my gerbil.

[Markpd]

Ok thanks guys, I'll have to have a think about this.

Btw, re prepackaged soil, would that be bacteria free?? Isn't bacteria part of what makes soil? (fuzzy memories here, so I could easily be wrong! )

[betty]

You can buy 'sterile' soil for various purposes, but a naturally working soil substrate would have to have bacteria and other microbes/microscopic life in it to be self sustaining for their own lives at least. Not all bacteria/virus/protazoa/fungi are 'bad' per se, so this isn't always a negative.

Commercial substrates can be devoid of obvious life after certain (usually) heat related treatments - but this would soon change if you had it exposed outside or you planted things in it with their own soil/substate around the roots etc.

[yeti218]

I've grown a few small gardens for my rodents for indoor use. Most recently I used soil from a reptile store that reptile owners use for their bioactive setups. Then I grow plants that I know are safe like catgrass, millet, flax, etc. and let them have access to it when they are free roaming. I'm sure it's not as thrilling or diverse as an outdoor garden, but much more in line with my own risk tolerance.

[mygerbilprince]

I think a safer option would be an indoor dig box. I would keep the high sides and lid on it (the lid doesn't have to be super fine mesh, as long as they can't escape) but instead of filling it with soil, I'd fill it with children's play sand (its super cheap at a hardware store of some sort) You could use garden soil if you want, but I think I'd opt for the sand since it better mimics the deserts gerbils are native to.

For the enrichment of live plants, I love yeti218's idea of growing millet, flax, and other easy to grow and gerbil safe seeds/plants. You could just put the plants in small terracotta pots that were buried in the sand (use prepacked, fertilizer free soil). If you didn't want to grow plants, you could buy sprays. Millet sprays are very easy to find, I usually buy the ones for birds.

If you wanted the bug aspect, you could sprinkle some mealworms (alive or dead) in and around the sand for foraging. If you struggle to find mealworms, I've seen some treats for pet chickens that include mealworms. I once saw a suet treat for chickens with some sort of edible binding agent, sunflower seeds, and mealworms, which I think would be great for gerbils if broken into several pieces.

For an extra touch you could use grapevine wood as enrichment. I use grapevine wood and various types of sprays in my gerbils' permanent enclosures, but they'd be fun in this set up too!

A flaw in this idea is the sand stability issue. Mixing in hay with the sand could help provide more stability, but I'm not sure how effective it would be. I would bury premade tunnels in the sand so they could still burrow. You could also just made sure the sand is deep enough for them to dig, but not get buried. 

Just an idea, hope this helps!