Play or Fighting?

[LilyandDaisy]

I think by this point it's very likely they already know who is dominant, but gerbils won't always act in character for their dominant/submissive role. I actually like to say subordinate rather than submissive, because the former describes a fixed position within the clan, whereas the latter is more of a behaviour which can change depending on the situation. A subordinate gerbil might often act in a way that isn't very submissive, or which the dominant gerbil doesn't feel is adequately submissive, but the key is how that's resolved within the pair. If the dominant gerbil can put them back in their place, and they accept that, all is well. Issues arise when those conflicts can't be solved peacefully.

It's possible that Opal is subordinate, and that she's trying to provoke Ember as some kind of renegotiation, and that doesn't necessarily have to mean she wants to be dominant. If Opal is dominant, it's possible she's doing this as a way of testing Ember or reasserting her own position. And I think it's at least equally likely that it might not be about dominance at all, and that Opal might just be acting annoying to get a bit of attention.

It's usually hard to know for sure what gerbil body language means, but I think you can often get a clue as to how concerned you need to be from how concerned the gerbils seem. If Ember really doesn't seem that bothered initially then that could be because Opal's behaviour really doesn't have that much significance in terms of their bond, and she only feels the need to react when it becomes excessively annoying.

Have you noticed any correlation with their heat cycles? Some gerbils get extra needy for attention when they're in heat.

I think it would be wise to keep a simple tank setup with these two for the time being. So not too many toys or things to do. Platforms can be a risk, especially when they're quite far above the bedding level such that they are clearly seen as a different area. Tubes and open-ended things like that should be fine, and enough bedding to burrow in perhaps without making very deep tunnels. A wheel should be okay (and might help keep Opal more productively occupied) and of course, lots of hay/cardboard etc to chew. Two water bottles is never a bad idea but probably not essential if they don't seem to argue over it. Sometimes the kind of gerbil who likes to provide arguments will pick a fight over a water bottle even when another is available.

[geebtown]

Goodness me these little ones are so complicated at times! Strange how Gan and Vila ended up being ok in the end after all that awkwardness! I wish we could get inside their heads about this stuff…

Interesting info on the subordinate gerb topic too LilyandDaisy, thank you, that makes sense! And noted with the water bottles too, thanks!

Regarding heat cycles - yes, I’ve noticed they get extra annoying towards each other whilst in heat. Lots of bossiness! Usually the one who isn’t in heat will brush the other off - but the gerb in heat persists and then there’s a scuffle.

As for keeping a simple tank, should I remove their bridges and coconut hide? They like to sit on top of them and just look around - would these count as different ‘areas’?

I have an Ikea Detolf and currently utilising 75% of the space. When I first brought them home and put them in it as a full size tank they looked super duper small and lost in it and a bit panicked, so I halved it until they had settled, made a bed etc and grew bigger and then opened up the next segment of it, (I did it this way because I was also worried that being so small in such a big space would threaten their bond).

My intention is of course to use the full tank, gradually increasing it as they got more comfortable with the space. But the reason I haven’t yet is because of these squabbles, and reading that too little or too much space can be an issue.. then I was a bit stuck on what is too much and what is too little! Should I consider temporarily shrinking it back down to half?

I haven’t allowed free roam time since my last response here and I feel that the behaviour has improved. Still a few tiffs here and there but they are over in seconds and nothing like I saw on the sofa. So I had been feeling that this was good progress..

However - I can tell they are not pleased with the lack of play time… constantly looking at us for attention and generally being quite restless whenever they know we are around.

I have also been checking their skin for any bites etc especially around the neck/mouth/rear. Last night I noticed a small scab on Ember, just behind her shoulder/arm. It doesn’t look new… so I don’t know when or how she got it. But she has also been a little nippy since I stopped free roam and is quite needy towards us (although she is a sociable character anyway.)

I don’t know if it’s just her being adventurous but whilst spot cleaning she’s been coming to my hand, nipping me (not too harshly though) and then scrambling up onto my hand and arm. At first I thought this was cute, but then she kept doing it which leads me to wonder why she’s suddenly doing this?

Maybe I’m overthinking it… but is she doing this to tell me something? Is she unhappy and wants to get out of the tank? 😞

They seem happy together overall. They will sit and nibble at hay together, tease up paper flake bedding, chew the same cardboard… it’s literally just these random evening squabbles that the concern. 😞

Thank you 💗 Apologies for such long posts, I find it hard to condense things sometimes!

[LilyandDaisy]

Some pairs can get quite intense when one is in heat. Specifically when one is in heat and the other isn't. When both are in heat they seem too distracted by their own hormones to be annoyed by the other. It can help to give them extra cardboard or other things to do.

Declanning is a process which tends to continually progress in one direction (except in some cases where the owner intervenes early). What that means is that, although they might still be having these arguments, if weeks are going by and it's not getting worse or escalating, that makes it less likely to be anything sinister. The longer this goes on without escalating, the more you might be able to conclude that this is more of a feature of these two gerbils' dynamic rather than a significant problem, although it may be the case that you always need to be a bit careful with their tank setup and their time outside the tank.

I would guess that Ember is probably being more needy due to the lack of free roaming. You could try making a playpen or smaller space for them to run around in and see if their behaviour is better then. It's about finding a balance really between them being excessively bored, and increasing tension between them.

The scab is unusual but I would just keep an eye on that. Sometimes scabs can be caused by mites so keep an eye out for any itching, or visible crawling bugs anywhere.

I think the bridges and coconut hides are probably okay. What I've found can be an issue with some gerbils is when there's a larger area which is separate in some way, whether that's because it's a separate area connected by a tube, or because it's a large platform raised above the bedding level. Small things like bridges are generally fine because it's not enough space for a gerbil to reasonably want to defend it. When things are more severe in terms of declanning risk, a very bare tank is best, but in your case I would personally just avoid toppers and raised platforms for the time being. Raised platforms that are noticeably higher than the bedding level were always as issue with my gerbils Astra and Twiglet, but they seem okay if the platform is at the same level as the bedding so that it's not like a completely separate area.

You could try reducing their space again to see if that makes a difference. Half a detolf is still a decent amount of space for two young gerbils so I don't think there would be any harm in that, and I would probably give it another month or two at least before giving them the whole space since it's still relatively early days with them.

[geebtown]

Oh that makes perfect sense actually! I didn’t think of it that way… The fact that this has been going on for a long time and hasn’t really come to anything major and could just be their dynamic is both a comfort and interesting too! Thank you!

And I think you were right in thinking that Ember was feeling more needy because she wanted to come out and play… Looking back, I don’t know why I didn’t think that at the time too. I guess I was just trying to give all the information I possibly could, thinking it would help describe the situation 😅 Thanks for bearing with me… ☺️

I have been letting them have an occasional short run around in a small space, or just having them in our hands or on our lap for a short cuddle rather than letting them run far and long. I haven’t noticed any scrapping for a while now, so I’m pleased that this is working! 😃

No developments on the scab either - I’ll still keep an eye out though 😊 I haven’t seen them itching or any bugs about either, hooray! 🙂

Noted about the hides, bridges and platforms! Thank you, I’ll bare all of that in mind! 😊

Since they have been doing well with me elimating/reducing free roam I kept the tank the same size as it was, so we’re still at 75%. I’ll keep it like this for a bit longer like you said, and see how things continue to go. ☺️

Apologies for taking so long to respond! Life got busy and every time I sat down to write I had to get back up again for one reason or another! But I really do appreciate the help here, thank you! 💕