Peanut's a girl, what should I do?

[Manix]

Alrighty, Peanut (nutmeg) was 6 to 6.5 weeks old when I got her. She was still too small to determine her sex so I gambled and paired her up Punkin (also nutmeg and possible blood relative), hoping She would be a He. Well, 3 weeks later Peanut looks like a girl. She is also small for her age. Her two remaining litter mates at the store are twice her size. I'm pretty sure Punkin is still thinking of her as just a playmate and not an actual mate yet. Now would be the perfect time to remove her from the tank.

Here's the problem. My only other available tank is a 5 gallon. Fine for a single gerbil, but I'm not too happy about keeping any of the gerbils alone now that I know how much happier they are together.

Here's a few choices I have.
I could try to introduce Punkin to Rin and Stimpy. If that's successful then I do not have a tank space issue and can simply find a female to keep Peanut company. The problem with this plan is introducing the boys (could go horribly wrong) and walking through the front door with yet another gerbil (also could go horribly wonrg and result in instant deafness). I could possibly try reintroducing Peanut to her mother seeing as she nor any of the other adults have sold yet. This particular pet store is switching over to Fish only and are selling all of their other animals and merchandise. I feel very bad for the five adults at the store. It will be very difficult to find them homes (all 2 years or older except for two pups). Needless to say my mother would kill me if she knew I had even thought about taking all the gerbs home with me. Not that I can, I don't have enough tanks! Wait, the petstore said they throw in some free tanks... now about the furniture...uh..right, better not.

I could also move Peanut to the 5 gallon and leave both her and Punkin alone. Mom would prefer this idea I'm sure, but I don't like cleaning out a third tank again or keeping them both alone.

OR, allow Peanut one litter with Punkin. Then seperate girls with mom and boys with Dad. I've said I wouldn't risk this once before, so this isn't at the top of the list. Not to mention that it could be difficult to tell if Peanut is pregrant right up until the pups are born, then it would be too late and a second litter would be well under way.

I'm open to all other ideas.

[doomgerbiluk]

Manix I think your need to sit down with your mum and explain the situation
ask her to listen and explain all your options as you just have to us
Explain that gerbils are social animals and happier in pairs or groups
If you can get her to read the sites and forums or even pop on here and ask a few questions herself
Whatever decision is made here should be made with her knowledge and approval, not behind her back.
Please, please do not decieve her, if you do and you then have a problem shes more likely to be hostile, if she has been involved in all decision making she will be more likely to support you and trust your judgement in the future.

Good luck

[Manix]

<imagines Mom reading a gerbil forum and trying to figure out how one works>
LOL Now that's funny.
I don't won't to go out buy any other gerbils, honestly. Four rodents is more than enough. And I certainly don't want to present another "surprise" gerbil to her. I've explained the situation to her and was surprised to find she would be more excepting of Peanut having babies than she would be of me buying another gerbil. I'm not sure why. It makes no sense to me. Seems it would be simpler to buy one and make peanut happy, than to end up with a possibly large litter of babies that I will have to house. I suppose if I went that route I could find homes for some of them. One of my co-workers likes the idea of taking on a pair if it happened. But if I did go this route, how safe for Peanut and Punkin would it be? I would have to watch peanut closely and seperate the two as soon I knew (and then I may not know until the day the babies arrive). That would leave Peanut alone to raise her very first (and only, if all goes well) litter. There's way to many "what if's" involved.

I've kept gerbils alone before, and while they may be happier with another, they weren't unhealthy. How truamatizing would it be for Peanut to be seperated now and kept alone? I may be able to introduce Punkin to the other boys still. I need to find a salution everyone can live with, and preferably, is best for the gerbils.

[doomgerbiluk]

OK lets get this in focus
1) sibling pairs in ANY animal increases the risk of multiplication of genes. If there are any harmful genes it can result in severe problems.
In gerbils this is likely to mianifest itself (in severely inbred gerbils) in poor immunity of pups, respiratory illness, increase of deformations at birth etc.
BUT in gerbils such complications are not common, therefore breeding one litter of pups which are destined to be pets should be relatively harmless. I cannot guarantee it of course.
2) hybrid vigour means that unrelated gerbils will have bigger litters, related gerbils smaller ones (but a friend has a sibling pair who just had 8 pups in their first litter so its not gospel)
3) first litters are usually smaller (see above)
4) as social animals gerbils are happier in groups and females accept a related gerbil best. A daughter or 3 will be a nice colony as long as your are aware of the dangers
5) for maybe 2 days before the birth most gerbils are OBVIOUSLY pregnant..they become lumpy and you can feel the pups

I would go with the litter I think
good luck

[queenofthenile]

Can you ask the petstore if you can switch Peanut for one of the males?

[andrea]

If you are confident enough to know that you tell pregnancy before she give birth a litter maybe an option. Is the tank big enough to put a temporary divide in so the males can still see the pups, then you could keep the male pups with them and the female pups to be seperated with mum when weaned (I am planning for if you cannot home any of the pups)?. I wouldn't advise re-introducing the pups to the males later if they have been completly seperated.

I dunno about the first litter being the smallest. it varies from gerbil to gerbil, I have had some have big litters later and some have big litters from the word go.

Assuming there is no major inbreed further back in there genetics, one generation inbreed should give you no problems of course the pups must not be bred together and if someone wanted to us them for breeding they would need some "new blood".

If the tanks big enough you could put a divide in and she can live happily with the boys, having company but no danger of pups arriving.

But you will need to decide soon. how early a female can get pregnant varies, i have had some wait till they are 5 months then some get pregnant at 2 months old.

Maybe you could put a divide in, one they can, see and smell each other through when you are not with them so to avoid any pups appearing and further mating (i.e at night or when your out)and have them together when you can watch them?.

Good Luck
Andrea

[Manix]

queenofthenile said:

Can you ask the petstore if you can switch Peanut for one of the males?

Not an option. Even if the store wasn't liquidating all non-fish merchanise and animals I'm too attached to Peanut.

I think I like Andreas idea about the devider. I can buy some wire screen that will allow them to see and smell each other and hopefully rig the second story the same way so they're not cramped on space, this should resolve all the issues.

With the wire screen devider, will Peanut and Punkin still consider each other "family"? Enough so that I could allow them to play together when I can keep a very close eye on them? Or would the screen devider be the same as seperating them with different tanks?

[doomgerbiluk]

I'm sorry I've never done that so I wouldn't like to say

[Manix]

I tried and failed at putting a devider in the tank. I don't have the right material available. I went to the pet store that's liquidating and bought a used 10 gallon, water bottle and lid for 6$.

I tried introducing Rin to Punkin but that didn't go over well. A few hours of friendly play and one dominance brawl later, and we are all sporting wounds. I doubt the split tank method would have worked either. In the end, it would still be Rin or Punkin as top rat and I didn't want them to seriously hurt each other to find out who that was.

One moment they're gromming the next they're trying to tear out each others scents glands. Punkin now sports a small scratch. He avoided any serious damage when I put my hand in the tank to seperate them. Rin bit me instead. Little rascal would have done some damage had he hit his target. I can't really assess Rins wounds. It's more than a scratch, of that I'm sure. It didn't bleed long and Rin has already cleaned himself up. I think punkin actually got his teeth into him becuase there are two seperate places, both very small.

I think both will recover so long as they don't get infected. I'm more worried about Rin, I can tell his belly is sore. Should I let him tend to himself, or do I need to do something to make sure his bite wound doesn't get infected?

Punkin is now in the bargin tank and very upset that he's alone. Peanut, likewise isn't happy to by herself. I let them play together for awhile before seperating them for good. I'm halfway hoping peanut will surprise me in another month with a litter. I don't think it will happen though. Perhaps if I had waited another week or two.

Good or bad, that's the outcome of this story.

[doomgerbiluk]

Gerbils are fast healers
I have antiseptic spray I use sometimes ut if hes cleand himslef up it may be best to leave things alone

[Manix]

Well, he must be ok. He's stopped feeling sorry for himself and finally climbed to the second story to run like mad on the wheel. It only took 12 hours of consoling and cheering up from Stimpy to get that far

Punkin is now officialy mad at me. He is protesting his new found lonely existance but nipping and peeing on me whenever I pick him up. And I thought Stimpy was the diabolical one. Punkin is out for revenge.