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Post by crazycritter on Jul 16, 2004 13:40:53 GMT -8
Hi everyone...
I would like to hear some color predictions for some of my breeding pairs that have not had a litter yet.
1) Golden Argente Female, PEW Male
2) Lilac female, Golden Agouti Pied Male
3) Golden Argente Pied female, slate male
4) Colorpoint Slate Male, Slate Female ( the slate female's parents are a golden agouti male and a Black pied female. She had golden agouti, golden agouti spotted, and Golden argente siblings) The colorpoint is one i Hope to be getting from Queenofthenile ;D
I'm eager to hear your predictions!!!
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Post by queenofthenile on Jul 17, 2004 8:08:06 GMT -8
Okay, I see a problem . Asha, my colourpoint slate is female, but you do have a slate male that you could pair her with? (I was thinking you could breed Asha with a Siamese male from Mads and get 1/2 burmese and 1/2 siamese offspring). Okay, my results are assuming that the only recessives possible (since it's Edmonton) are a or p (black or argente golden). 1) 100% argente cream 2) If the agouti has no recessives = 50% agouti and 50% agouti spotted If he is Aa = 50% black and 50% agouti (with 50% offspring with spots) If he is Pp = 50% argente golden and 50% agouti (with 50% offspring with spots) If he is AaPp = 25% agouti, 25% black, 25% argente and 25% lilac (with 50% of offspring with spots) 3) If female is AA PP or AA Pp and male is PP = 50% agouti and 50% agouti spotted If female is Aa PP or Aa Pp and male is PP = 50% black and 50% agouti (with 50% of offspring with spots) If female is AA PP and male is Pp = 50% agouti and 50% agouti spotted If female is Aa PP and male is Pp = 50% agouti and 50% black (with 50% of offspring with spots) If female is AA Pp and male is Pp = 50% agouti and 50 % argente golden If female is Aa Pp and male is Pp = 3/8 agouti, 3/8 black, 1/8 argente golden and 1/8 lilac 4) won't work due to what I said above - but if using a slate male: If Asha is PP and Male is Pp, or Asha is Pp and Male is PP = 100% slate If Asha is Pp and Male is Pp = 75% slate and 25% mystery colour (similar to PEW) I just wanted to ask how you are sure that you have slate gerbils. As far as I know, there are only 2 breeders with gg gerbils in the whole of Western canada (myself and Ashley Dyer in Saskatoon). I would be just guessing that your gerbs are black not slate, due to the likelyhood. The only person I know of in Western canada that breeds slate is Ashleigh and she is 6 hours away. I would just want to ensure they were slate before breeding, otherwise, you will wind up with all black in the pairing of Asha and the slate male. That would seem like sort of a waste of the CbCb and gg. If you want some some suggestions about maximizing the colours you can get, just ask. I hope I'm not seeming to forward, but I know how excited you were about getting different colours, and it appears you will be getting all the same with the pairings you are suggesting.
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Post by sweetie on Jul 21, 2004 11:00:27 GMT -8
Hey there queenie ;D Do you mean that if you pair a black and a black that you will only get black? and that that will be a waste? I guess after getting adjusted myself and getting the little ones adjusted, I would like to also breed (still not sure) and I have a Black and Black pair (not together yet still segregated by sex) in which I am almost positive that the Black females' litter mate is Agouti male. Does that still make for all Black?? Also the Black male's litter mate is almost surely a Sapphire female which I could pair up with the male Agouti. You probably remember me from the stressed out poster about the inbreeding/shelter episode and the dire need for appropriate information. I am impressed at your knowledge of the color genetics and possibile litter coulorings. Do you have any predictions if I mate the Black Male (litter mate possibly a Sapphire female) and the Black Female (litter mate almost positively Agouti male)? How about the predictions for the opposite: Agouti male and the Sapphire female? I think that my Black female was segregated early enough. She does not appear to be getting any heaftier. I can breathe easier knowing that we don't have inbred babies!
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Post by queenofthenile on Jul 21, 2004 12:23:39 GMT -8
What I meant by a waste is that Asha, the colourpoint slate carries genes that would not be visibly passed onto her offspring if paired with a black gerbil (because the black gerbil does not carry the same genes). The result would be 100% black gerbils. If Asha is paired with with a colourpoint gerbil, then the offspring will all be colourpoints, and so you get more interesting colours coming out in the litters.
As for your gerbils, if you pair black and black you could have 2 possible outcomes. Since the black male has a saphire sister, he *may* be carrying a recessive p gene. If his black female mate also carries this gene, you will get 3/4 black and 1/4 lilac. If only one of the black gerbils carries the p gene, then you will get all black gerbils. The only way to find out is to breed them.
As for the Agouti x saphire, you have a few possible outcomes. If the agouti male carries no recessive genes, you will get 100% agouti pups.
But if your male carries the recessive a gene, then you will get 50% agouti and 50% black. This scenario is the most likely one because his sister is black and thus he has a 2 in three chance of carrying the a gene.
If he is carrying the p gene, then you will get 50% agouti and 50% argente golden.
If he is carrying both p and a, then you will get 25% agouti, 25% black, 25% argente golden and 25% lilac. The only way to be sure what you get, is to breed them.
I hope this helped you out and good luck with the decision.
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Post by sweetie on Jul 25, 2004 12:56:14 GMT -8
Hello there,
I am amazed and impressed with your ability to predict. Yes I now see why it would be a waste. I would love to breed them to see what the color scheme would be but unless I am able to place all the babies into loving homes, I fear it would be selfish.
In addition, I still need to learn alot more about gerbils, breeding, dynamics of breeding and separating. I guess untill I can get loving homes and feel confident I can breed them with out risk to parents or babies it would be irrisponsible of me to do it. I will absolutely let you know if and when I breed. I will make sure you get pictures also. I love all of your pictures.
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Post by queenofthenile on Jul 25, 2004 14:04:14 GMT -8
I'm glad that you are being so careful. So many people just throw two gerbils together and hope for the best . I think it is best to have a plan and do a lot of research. I researched for about 6 months before getting my breeding pair. Unfortunately, it is much harder to place some of the more common colours (ie: black and agouti) in homes. I find that the colourpoints are the most popular. Thanx for the compliments on my pictures! I hope one day to start up a gerbil breeding and development website. I'm computer illiterate though, and so it will take a lot of work . I've got about 800 pictures on my computer of my gerbil's pregnancy, the birthing process and development pics of the babies. I love taking pictures ;D!
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