What fo you think?

[sandy2]

From the pictures she looks like a colourpoint slate to me. If I'm right about that, I'd go with the black for a mate, then you'd get:

aa c(chm)c(chm) DD E* gg P* X aa C* DD E* G* P* ---->

all their pups would be aa c(chm)* DD E* Gg P*

from this first generation of pups, hopefully you will get a black or siamese male. If your current black male carries one hidden c(h) gene, then you could get a siamese pup. There's a 50% chance it will be male. Then mate him with his mom:

aa c(chm)c(chm) DD E* gg P* X aa c(chm)c(h) DD E* g* P* --->

1/2 of their pups would be aa c(chm)c(chm), Burmese or CPT Slate.
1/2 of their pups would be aa c(chm)c(h), Siamese or Lt. CPT Slate

What if there is only a black male pup from the first mating? Pair him with CPT Slate mom anyway, because he carries one of her c(chm) genes and one of her g genes:

aa c(chm)c(chm) DD E* gg P* X aa Cc(chm) DD E* g* P* --->

1/4 of their pups could be Burmese
1/4 of their pups could be CPT Slate
1/4 of their pups could be Slate
1/4 of their pups could be Black.

So a whopping 50% of their pups will be colourpoint anyway!

BUT only if one of the parents in each mating carries both dominant genes for dark eyes, PP.

Its a win-win situation either way. I hope she is a young gerbil, which will give you time to do all this!

[queenofthenile]

The only problem with this Sandy, is that Sweetie is kind of hoping to only have 1-2 litters to start with . I agree that the best match is Momma Bear with Cowboy - hoping for Siamese pups because there were white pups in the same litter as Cowboy.

[sandy2]

Yes, I think she has a fairly good chance of getting a siamese pup from Cowboy, as he might carry Himalayan, or Burmese if he happens to carry Chinchilla Medium. Fingers crossed she's a dominant PP too. But, variety is the spice of life and its always a bit of a roll of the dice, isn't it.

[sweetie]

Thanks Sandy for your input. I guess Queenie and I are trying to find the perfect combintation and as you said the best pairing would be Cowboy a Black. I am uncomfortable letting thier offspring mate with Mamma Bear.

At this point, I am back at square one. I am trying to think also of temperments. I think after seeing them interact (one gender in the rollaround balls and the other gender free raoming), that Bubba and Sweetie would work good (they both seem to be the dominant ones any ways) . I think Blackie and Honmeymunch would be great since Blackie is skittish and Honeymunch is younger and less assertive and finally Cowboy and Mamma Bear since, Mama appears to be a little older and Cowboy is used to being the middle man. Sounds strange I know but these combinations may be the easiest to work with and the pairs will be happiest based on temperment and tolerance of other gerbils (mates).

Although I am breeding, I am also concerned for the gerbils hppiness and welfare. I really only want to start with one pair maybe in October and get some experience before I go full throttle. I also want to make sure that I can place all of my little pups. I need to get a website going. I have registered with AGS and I need to do the paper work Etc. There are still many things to do before I begin to breed.

Thank you for your knowledge. I am a bit limited on my picks of gerbils and was ASKED not to bring any more in. I am excited that so many members are that good with genetics and pairings since even after Queenies utorial, I am in the dark. Sad part is that I thought I got it. The tutorial was great but I am having a mental block. It happens when you get older Trust me!!

When I begin to breed, I will put out all the info and then take a poll!!

[sandy2]

About inbreeding rodents, I've read from reliable sources that one generation of inbreeding is ok as rodents are very resistant to the deleterious effects of inbreeding. So far I've bred mother to son, father to daughter, brother and sister, and 1/2 brother and sister together and if anything, found their pups to be superior, both in health and temperament, to those whose parents were unrelated. Of course I always stop there, never more than one generation of inbreeding. I have not yet seen any birth defects or health problems. The only health problems I've seen were in unrelated gerbils purchased from a pet shop, and I think that was due to the poor feeding and care they got there.

I've read of at least one breeder who found that to be the case also with her gerbils. In the wild, inbreeding must occur all the time since colonies of gerbils resist strangers and tend to stay together in one large clan. Gerbils and people don't have the same family rules!

[sweetie]

Sandy,

You are correct when you said that rodents are less susceptible to inbreeding issues. But less is not a risk I want to take. I agree that the scientific data suggests that inbreeding one generation will not severly disfigure or such but it does say that if a gerbil has an issue. it can become worse with inbreeding. I have no idea the ancestry of any of my gerbils since they are pet store gerbils and rescue gerbils. I am not passing judgement on you since you seem to know who and what you are breeding. I really don't want my first experience to be a bad one. I do not want to risk the possibile issues that may arise. I am not as knowledgeable as you about breeding. I will certainly take your suggestions about pairings and colors since I am a novice.

Thanks for your information and your advice. I think that you have extensive knowledge and don't want to disaude you from giving it. I appreciate it!! You offered advice based on my situation of not being allowed more gerbils and I thank you!!

[queenofthenile]

I agree that inbreeding is feasible as long as you know that the parents aren't already inbred (which you can't confirm because they are petstore gerbs). I think it is generally safe to inbreed as long as you add new breeding stock each time before you inbreed again.