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Nutmeg
Feb 6, 2005 13:43:58 GMT -8
Post by piffthegerbl on Feb 6, 2005 13:43:58 GMT -8
Nutmeg is my favorite color and I was wondering what two colors can make a nutmeg(Without a nutmeg parent ) . I'm not very good with genetics and I want a nutmeg really badly ;D. Thanks, [glow=red,2,300]PiffTheGerbL[/glow]
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Nutmeg
Feb 7, 2005 13:47:23 GMT -8
Post by sandy on Feb 7, 2005 13:47:23 GMT -8
A nutmeg is basically a black with two e recessives. So you need parents that both carry e recessives and also the a recessives. It increases the chance of getting nutmegs if one or both parents do not carry any other recessives.
So for example, these are possible parents of nutmegs:
nutmeg X nutmeg [aa CC ee DD GG PP cross] all pups would be nutmeg
DEH X nutmeg [Aa CC ee DD GG PP X aa CC ee DD GG PP] 50/50 DEH and nutmeg pups
Agouti with a recessive X Black, both carry e recessive [Aa CC Ee DD GG PP X aa CC Ee DD GG PP] the number of ee pups is smaller and therefore the number of nutmeg pups is smaller, but still possible. The same goes for
Black X Black, both carry e recessive [aa CC Ee DD GG PP cross]
Black with e recessive X Nutmeg, Agouti with a and e recessive X Nutmeg, Black with e recessive X DEH that carries a recessive, or Agouti with a and e recessive X DEH with a recessive, etc.
A number of other colours will also produce a small percentage of nutmegs; for example, DTW, but ONLY if both parents carry the required recessives of a, e and dominant of P and without other recessives modifying the colour. Its complicated, I know.
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Nutmeg
Feb 7, 2005 16:21:31 GMT -8
Post by piffthegerbl on Feb 7, 2005 16:21:31 GMT -8
Well, I don't understand genetics very well, so I dunno what a recessive e and a are and how to tell if your gerbil has it...Maybe there is a website that you know of? Thanks, [glow=red,2,300]PiffTheGerbL[/glow] PS-Would these two parents be able to produce Nutmeg? Honey Cream(AKA-Spotted Lt. DEH) And Spotted Black
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Nutmeg
Feb 7, 2005 18:33:47 GMT -8
Post by callimico on Feb 7, 2005 18:33:47 GMT -8
The Honey cream carries A- C(cb/ch) ee G- P- Spsp, so as long as he also carried recessive a, and the pied black carried recessive e, you could have nutmeg pups. Have they had a litter yet? If you had any black pups in the litter that means the honey cream carries Aa, if they had any Dark Eyed Honey pups, or Honey Cream, that means the pied black carries Ee, and could have nutmeg pups, if the Honey Cream carries Aa. If their were no self colored gerbils in the first few litters (like black) the honey cream doesn't carry Aa, but you could still get nutmeg pups, by breeding 2 of the siblings together such as a DEH and Honey Cream, or one of the pups with the pied black. This site has some info on gerbil genetics if your interested in learning www.gerbilbreeding.com/gene.htm If you bred a DEH and Honey Cream siblings together, their pups would be 3/4 DEH pups, 1/4 Nutmeg. 1/2 of those would also statistically be spotted, so some of the DEH carrying Cch would actually be Honey Cream. The Pied black paired with one of the honey cream or DEH pups would give you 1/4 black, 1/4 agouti, 1/4 nutmeg, 1/4 DEH. Paired with a honey cream 2/3 would be spotted, 1/2 if paired with a DEH pup. Inbreeding one generation won't hurt the pups any, and they can be outbred with another unrelated gerbil for more nutmeg pups. Cute pair btw ;D Sometimes you can tell what recessives a gerbil carries by it's effect on lightening/darkening the coat color. This is a picture of 3 DEH gerbils, one carries CC, one carries Cch, one carries Ccb. Your gerbil looks like a honey cream carrying Cch, but the spotting can lighten the coat color to. I thought this pic was kinda interesting to, it shows a regular DEH on the left, and a DEH carrying one ef (schimmel) gene on the right
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Nutmeg
Feb 7, 2005 19:13:48 GMT -8
Post by piffthegerbl on Feb 7, 2005 19:13:48 GMT -8
Yes, they have had their first litter 2 weeks ago on Sunday ;D there is one Honey cream and one DEH Heres Pix:
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Nutmeg
Feb 9, 2005 14:21:55 GMT -8
Post by sandy on Feb 9, 2005 14:21:55 GMT -8
yes if you breed the 2 siblings together they will have some nutmeg pups because they are both Aa ee.
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Nutmeg
Feb 9, 2005 16:08:28 GMT -8
Post by piffthegerbl on Feb 9, 2005 16:08:28 GMT -8
Wouldn't that be inbreeding?
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Nutmeg
Feb 9, 2005 20:54:28 GMT -8
Post by sandy on Feb 9, 2005 20:54:28 GMT -8
With gerbils from unrelated parents it is not a dangerous practice because gerbils have come from inbred lab populations and have had most of the deleterious genes bred out of them already. Also rodents are resistant to inbreeding; if you think about it, colonies in the wild are probably inbred anyway since gerbils do not make any special effort to prevent inbreeding (unlike humans).
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Nutmeg
Feb 9, 2005 21:50:49 GMT -8
Post by piffthegerbl on Feb 9, 2005 21:50:49 GMT -8
I'm not sure I understand...i just will stay on the safe side and find different mates for them
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Nutmeg
Feb 10, 2005 2:01:38 GMT -8
Post by Ritzie/Admin on Feb 10, 2005 2:01:38 GMT -8
Still I would be cautious with inbreeding! I know several case of inbred litters with disformed pups!
Populations in the wild are not inbred in general. Nature's way of prevention is that pups leave the family group when they are sexually mature! Normally they breed than with unrelated individuals and start a new group! It is true that many of the rodents that we have as pets have a history in laboratoria, and so are more resistant to inbreeding tha their wild counterparts.
But just to keep the captive gerbil population as genetic diverse as possible, I would not recommend inbreeding! And that beside the possibility of ailments and infertility, etc.
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Nutmeg
Feb 10, 2005 2:16:14 GMT -8
Post by Ritzie/Admin on Feb 10, 2005 2:16:14 GMT -8
Inbreeding is sometimes used to fix a colour in a clan or population (new mutations).
When you inbreed gerbils, it is best to do that with gerbils that have a family line with gerbils that are never or for a long time not inbred! If you do that and pair two siblings, only 25 % of the gerbil's genes will become 'inbred' or homozygous (the same)!
When there have been more inbreeding in the past familiy line of this gerbil, or the parents themselves are inbred, than this percentage will be much higher, as the risk of inbreeding problems!
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