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Post by J on Feb 10, 2004 7:13:50 GMT -8
I have a 1yrold submissive female who I've succesfully introduced to 2 female pups before in a day!
I decided I wanted to breed her so I seperated her and split tank her with a younger male. SHE is attacking him! I've never seen her like this before! She's digging at the split screen, I held them together so they could sniff eachother and she somehow got a hold of them, they were in a ball but I shook the male off of her.. (didn't know how else to get them apart.. i had the female by the tail).... so they're split screen again and actually right now they're sniffing eachother's nose like normal..
but still. that attacking thing scared and shocked me. She's never done anything like that before with any of her tankmates! Any advice? This is my first male and female pairing...I thought male and female were supposed to be easy =0
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Feb 11, 2004 2:36:13 GMT -8
With older females it is almost never easy! I recommend to use the split-cage method for at least a week (or 5 days). And you have to switch them a couple of times a day from side. This way they spread their scent to the whole cage, without being able to attack each other. They will learn this way to recognise each other's smell as a part of their territory. After those 5 days, you can remove the seperation, and hopefully they will not fight! You can intervene with a stick or something else when they look like they will start to fight, just push them away from each other (sniffing is normal). If they will fight and will make a ball again, you can do the split-cage a couple of days longer. TIP: With my gerbils is helps sometimes to introduce them into another unfamiliar cage, so that each other smell is the only thing they recognise. I do this when they still cannot get allong with each other after a split-cage. Maybe it helps for you too.
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Post by J on Feb 11, 2004 19:13:29 GMT -8
Unfortunatley the male brought in mites. So what I did was sprayed them both with the mite spray, and put them in a box together lol. I read that if they're wet, they're more concerned with their own problem then who the other gerbil is. The male was trying to groom her, and she would let him. They would sniff eachother and just walk away, trying to figure out where they were. But then once they got dry, they got in a fight. I can't even tell who started it. There was no chasing and attacking or jumping in the air on sight though so I guess that's a good sign?
Anyways, they're split now. Gonna keep them split for a while untill I get rid of the mites. Don't want to possibly bring pups into this mess.
Question though - I know the thing they do with their neck is a good sign.. But what about the male biting the split screen and all of a sudden slamming hte side of his body against it while biting the bars? Seems agressive, although he's freindly and not mean. Then every now and then they will dig furiously at the bars like they are trying to go under it and get to eachother..
I know they're NOT ready to meet again, so what could that mean?
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Post by queenofthenile on Feb 12, 2004 1:44:47 GMT -8
I would just say that the male is feeling threatened. I would just recommend, as Peter said, to split cage them for longer. A good indicator of when to remove the divider is when you see the pair sleeping against each other through the divider. This may take a few days, or it may take weeks. Some people recommend you don't introduce them until they have been split for at least 2 weeks. Don't rush it and they should be fine. I have only had one gerbil not accept a mate but she was already about 2 years old and very aggressive.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Feb 12, 2004 7:25:51 GMT -8
Yes, be patient! With some gerbils it will take longer! I've read on a Dutch gerbil forum that they used the bath method (when gerbils start to fight they fall in water) and the method J described, making them wet and place them in a small box/tank. I thought this would be strange, because they don't accept their smell that fast and easy! So I told them that they would start to fight most likely when dried up. J's stories seems to confirm this. So you can imagine that I'm not in favour of the methods with water. I would also recommend the split-cage method first! J, your gerbil is most likely indeed scared of the other gerbil or he is the aggressive one himself. It is possible that gerbils are aggressive to other gerbils but not to humans, that is totally normal. Keep on going with the split-cage method, and the suggestions from Queenofthenile are indeed very useful! ;D
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Post by J on Feb 13, 2004 3:11:08 GMT -8
yeah I now think the male is the one with the agression problem. He is a bit smaller than her though so I'm sure that doesn't help. Today when doing the switching, I held them each in a fist. tight enough so they couldnt attack eachother but loose enough for them to feel free to sniff and breath. They sniff for a few seconds and then the female just turns away. The male tries to like leap out of my hand towards her..then gets fidgety. He does groom her nose though when it's in between the bars..so weird I guess. About the *water method* The only thing I could see water in a tub doing is stopping them from rolling in a ball and getting them to let go of eachother..lol I don't see how it would get them to like eachother though. I don't even see how they would fight in water.. they'd be more concerned with trying to get out of it... I tried it for about an hour and a half. I had to soak them good with that stuff anyways (it lasted about a day. Today the scratching started again...uughhhh. Hard to get rid of the right way when you have 2 split caged =/) and everytime they'd start to dry up... fighting..or almost fighting. Just for the hell of it I even put vics vapor rub on their nose lol (read that online too)..blah didn't help. If anything, it probably just gave them a headache or got them high. This is gonna take a while. They sleep on opposite sides of the tank. They throw a fit when they see the other's nest and they go nuts rearanging it. They sniff eachother for a few seconds and then run away. They chew on opposite sides of the splitscreen..lol
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Post by queenofthenile on Feb 13, 2004 7:33:30 GMT -8
Just have patience. Your pair may take 2 weeks or more before they are ready to meet each other. It is different for every gerbil. Please don't use Vicks on them. The only thing it will do is make them more upset (Now there is a new, horrible, foreign smell that they have to deal with). I'm also not sure whether it is nontoxic to small rodents. I don't know whether letting them sniff each other while you hold them will help either. I think it might also just make them feel more threatened because they have absolutely no control over the situation. At least in the split tank they can get away from each other. Also, you don't want the gerbils to associate the fear of meeting a strange gerbil, with your hands. That might cause something unpleasant . Just keep up with the split cage. If you just take it slow, the chances are very good that it will work out for you. Trying to force them to like each other isn't going to help.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Feb 15, 2004 11:41:01 GMT -8
About the *water method* The only thing I could see water in a tub doing is stopping them from rolling in a ball and getting them to let go of eachother..lol I don't see how it would get them to like eachother though. I don't even see how they would fight in water.. they'd be more concerned with trying to get out of it... That is what I mean! It can only stop ball fights, but it makes them not to like each other. And as Queenofthenile already told, be patient! But I know it can be hard! ;D
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Post by J on Feb 16, 2004 13:45:12 GMT -8
I introduced them. They've been together for 2-3 days now. It's weird though.
They got into one fight after the first induction, Peter kind of gave me an idea with the water. I didn't put them in it, no way. But when they got into a ball fight I dribbled a few drops of water on them from their waterbottle LOL which got them to let go of eachother. (I highly recommend doing this over using a stick, since that stresses them out even more cause they think the other gerbil is doing the poking and makes them bite eachother harder!)
They groomed eachother a bit after this, I guess to make eachotehr dry lol
At first they wouldn't sleep together, even though they both were clearly tired, They were kind of avoiding eachother. But then after the male fell asleep, the female climbed on top of him. He was fine with that.
Since then, on and off sleeping together. They'll sleep next to eachother but not touching eachother, or they'll be on opposite sides. Couple chasing and boxing matches, but no balls. I've been watching them really closely, and at night putting the male in a kritter keeper inside the tank *just incase anything happens*.
They seem to like to instigate eachother and bust eachother's balls. When the female finds food, she runs to him and shoves it in his face and then when he tries to nab it, she turns around..
SHe's sniffing his butt a lot. She'll sniff him, then after a few seconds she will circle him and turn around putting her butt in his face again... lol...
Male chasing the female sometimes, then boxing with her.
I know there is chasing that goes with mating, but i'd think it's too soon for these 2 to be mating.. but I wouldn't know the signs anyways except for the lifting of the butt and thumping which I haven't really seen. So yeah i'm confused on these 2.
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Post by J on Feb 17, 2004 14:39:01 GMT -8
Eek! Today the female was gathering tissue to make a nest with and the male ran up to her and humped her. He got her too, even made her squeak lol. She didn't clean herself afterwards so I'm assuming and hoping she's not pregnant. Gotta get rid of these mites first. I'm getting some stuff to put on them later this week, but have been using bleach on the cages and mite spray on them for now.. not working good enough. I even have to pick up some stuff for my dog since he's scratching. I think in his case it's just dry skin though. He was doing it before I got the male. But not taking any chances. If the female does get pregnant, the male won't try and mate with her anymore right? The nest thing is still weird though. Last night I had put in some new papertowels and stuff for them, they tore it apart and built a nest together and slept together. I woke up and they were still in the same nest. But then a few hours later I come back and the male is sleeping in the nest and the female is on the other side by herself..... Then later during the day, back together again and tonight is when he humped her. lol It's crazy.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Feb 18, 2004 7:50:38 GMT -8
It seems to me that they start to get along! I hope for you (and your gerbils) that they do! That they sleep together is a good sign! About their pregnancy: you're right, the male won't mate with the female when she is pregnant! This is because the female will only mate when she is in estrus, a certain stage in her fertility cycle. The (dominant) female will come into season every 4 to 6 days (if she is not pregnant).
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Post by geikou on Feb 18, 2004 21:38:10 GMT -8
Eek! Today the female was gathering tissue to make a nest with and the male ran up to her and humped her. He got her too, even made her squeak lol... The nest thing is still weird though. Last night I had put in some new papertowels and stuff for them, they tore it apart and built a nest together and slept together. I woke up and they were still in the same nest. But then a few hours later I come back and the male is sleeping in the nest and the female is on the other side by herself..... Then later during the day, back together again and tonight is when he humped her. lol It's crazy. Don't worry about them sleeping apart. Gerbils sometimes sleep together, sometimes apart. It' s normal. But what do you mean by "humped"? I would take this as meaning "mounted". If that's the case, gerbils pups may be expected soon!?
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Post by J on Feb 19, 2004 0:46:45 GMT -8
Yep I meant mount. ;D They've been getting along a lot better the past 2 days. Probabaly cause I cleaned out the tank and put new toys and stuff. Good to know. Thanks. =) So basically if he stops trying to mate her then that could possibly mean she's pregnant I just wasn't sure if male gerbils were like male dogs who try and mate all the time lol. I thought it was the funniest thing when he did it though. She's just running around grabbing new bedding to make a new nest with, still had it in her mouth, he runs up to her, mounts her and runs away...LOL Poor baby didn't know what hit her. lol
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Feb 21, 2004 7:08:45 GMT -8
Yes, when she is pregnant he will not mate with her! And I can imagine that it was a "big surprise" for her, especially because it is her first time! ;D
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