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Post by gerbilord on Aug 9, 2020 0:34:06 GMT -8
Hi, I'm moving the gerbils into a tank-like set up soon, I use a water bowl rather than a bottle as its easier to clean, more natural...
In the cage they are in at the moment, there are two floors so they can't bury the water in substrate.
I wanted to know how I can continue using the water bowl in the tank - does anyone have any ideas or experience with this?
Should I use some kind of platform so its off the ground (if so, what do you recommend? Many platforms have bad reviews because they're wobbly...)
Thanks :)
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Post by betty on Aug 9, 2020 3:26:39 GMT -8
Depending on the height you need there are few options including the platform from The Range (usually £4.99-£8.99), there are also some of the larger Trixie/Pet Ting houses that would generate stable height (but you need to watch out for nails on these when chewed). Unles you can make your own simple platform of course?
Alternatively if you have a small sheet of glass or perspex - and some aquarium glue - you can attach your own corner shelf inside the aquarium for the water bowl - just like the gerbil tanks commonly used all over the place. You know the ones with one or two triangle shelves in the corners...
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Post by Markpd on Aug 9, 2020 4:06:48 GMT -8
I was wondering about something like this too, but for the sand bath, despite it being behind the barrier and under a ramp it still gets some bedding in it, not a lot mind you. I was thinking of using a solution similar to the water bottle, where I used some welded mesh I'd bought for the lid to hang the water bottle on, like this.
But for the sandbath bowl I was thinking of making a wider piece to go around the corner and creating a small diagonal platform just big enough for the bowl. The idea here is that they just jump straight into the bowl and can't walk on the corner platform itself, but that said they might end up landing or walking on the parts of the platform that aren't covered by the bowl. So their would have to be some sort of floor on it anyway, more work but it would strengthen the floor.
Obviously for a water bowl you wouldn't want them landing in it! , so you would just make it bigger than the bowl and you would have to add some kind of floor. Which material though is the tricky bit, can't use plastic, cardboard would probably be no good as it would likely get wet (I assume?), could use metal sheet I guess (but not plain steel), but that would be more work, and slippery for them. Can't use plywood, I suppose you could use pine or other natural woods. Perhaps though if the water wasn't splashed or dribbled too much, cardboard could be used?, and just change it regularly? Oh, another thought, you could use fine stainless steel wire woven mesh like I used for the fan guards, that was 3.3mm holes but you could go larger or smaller. The only trouble with the welded mesh and the woven mesh is you have to deal with the sharp edges, for the welded mesh it's feasible to file the end of each wire (I did that, it's fairly easy as it's mild steel), for the woven mesh I had to bend the end of each wire up and out of the cage.... hmm, which you can't do when it's in the cage! So I think the best option for this route would be welded mesh platform with a cardboard floor, which you change as needed. So this way would be cheaper, but it does involve some handy work. And you would still have the problem of varying bedding height, which is why I shelved this idea in the end (pun intended ).
Of course if you have spare piece of triangle glass (or spare glass and a glass cutter) laying around then that would be cheap too!
Re perspex, wouldn't they chew that?
Btw, where a water bowl is avialable, do the Gerbils ever paddle in it to cool off?? , If so I might add one!
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Post by betty on Aug 9, 2020 4:12:05 GMT -8
I suppose you could make something like a bath hammock thing - where the top was wire (so it fitted under the lid) and then the hammock part was kiln-dreind pine? so you had a safe but suspended shelf area that you could remove or shift from one end to the other?
Thic perspex would be long lasting even if chewed at the edges eventually, and if the shelf was only big enough to stand on and had to be jumped up on to to - there would be no (gerbil) need to chew it as it wouldn't ever be 'in the way' and hard to chew as it was underfoot.
Nothing stops a determined gerbil though - but better than wire I would imagine?
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Post by Markpd on Aug 9, 2020 4:23:12 GMT -8
Yea I suppose they're not likely to chew it, but if they did chew it, wouldn't the fragments be a possible swallowing hazard for them? (for perspex). Whichever material was used though, they would all have the problem of varying bedding height, what to do when they dig bedding away from it and then can't reach it? Moving it for them isn't really practical, e.g if you're out at work all day, or away for a weekend. Perhaps if the platform or hanging shelf was near the edge of the tank, you could hang or glue a series of steps (or a ramp) to the tank side, so if the bedding height drops, then they could just use the steps/ramp to get to it. If the bedding height goes up, then the steps/ramp just gets buried, but it doesn't matter . Yea, that sounds good to me , although it'd be more work! (and for my sand bowl, probably not worth it).
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Post by gerbilord on Aug 9, 2020 6:04:33 GMT -8
Great ideas :) Might try out the range platform or similar, yes the nails are a pain in the bum. I might try convincing my brother/grandad to make a diy house/platform with no nails - what are the safest and strongest woods to use ;) I found this step thingy on zooplus, wondering if it would be any good: www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small_pets/gerbil/toys/13365only thing - some reviewers say its wobbly and I wouldn't want a water bottle crashing to the floor... There is also this from rodipet: www.rodipet.co.uk/cages-runs/laola-platform-50-x-25-x-15-cm.html which looks very sturdy and flat on top so the water wouldn't topple, but its so expensive! (compared to the range and zooplus) re the gerbil "paddling pool" - gerbils are desert animals so are very wary of water and only approach to drink it. Also if they "bathed" in the water it would remove the natural oils from their skin and cause their skin to dry up, which could be quite painful. Water should only ever be used for bathing if they cannot clean themselves alone. Also, if they can't warm back up after a bath in water they could potentially get ill, and if the water is too deep then they could drown. Just some points! Personally I think there are better options for cooling the gerbils, and I think there's too much risk with getting them wet... I like the water bottle holder idea though, I'll see when the cage comes if that is a possibility :D Thanks :)
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Post by Markpd on Aug 9, 2020 15:34:30 GMT -8
Re Gerbils in water, that wasn't what I was suggesting or asking at all , I was asking if they chose to go in it on their own free will, as in just walk through it to cool off , probably unlikely for a desert animal, but you never know! (just curious). Just paddling their feet in it wouldn't affect the fur on the rest of them , and as they would be (theoretically) doing it on a hot day they wouldn't be getting too cold. Drown? How deep is your bowl? lol , also Gerbils can swim (but again, not suggesting they should!). The other thought I had a about a platform, is to turn it upside down and screw it to the mesh lid (using large 'penny' washers), although that would probably be too heavy for a frameless wire mesh lid, and still have problems with varying bedding height. Is that Laola platform tall enough to stay above the bedding if put on the floor? Oak is one of the strongest woods, but I don't know if it's safe for Gerbils.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Aug 9, 2020 15:35:02 GMT -8
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Post by gerbilord on Aug 9, 2020 22:14:27 GMT -8
Re Gerbils in water, that wasn't what I was suggesting or asking at all ;), I was asking if they chose to go in it on their own free will, as in just walk through it to cool off :), probably unlikely for a desert animal, but you never know! (just curious). Just paddling their feet in it wouldn't affect the fur on the rest of them :), and as they would be (theoretically) doing it on a hot day they wouldn't be getting too cold. Drown? How deep is your bowl? lol :D, also Gerbils can swim (but again, not suggesting they should!). The other thought I had a about a platform, is to turn it upside down and screw it to the mesh lid (using large 'penny' washers), although that would probably be too heavy for a frameless wire mesh lid, and still have problems with varying bedding height. Is that Laola platform tall enough to stay above the bedding if put on the floor? Oak is one of the strongest woods, but I don't know if it's safe for Gerbils. Markpd Ah ok, sorry! But I don't really think they would choose to jump in anyway, mine always try walking around it, and if they can't do that, they'd jump over it. If your bowl is really just for the bottom of the feet, then obviously no drowning! ;) Also although gerbils can swim, its a survival mechanism, not an activity they'd do usually... Ye I guess on a hot day, with hot bedding, they would warm up quickly again, but then, is the water really doing its job? (btw I have a horror story of a time when Pippin got into a pot of water, she didn't swim but thrashed and kept going under... I was terrified and had to fish her out. She was shivering and both of us were in shock, I felt so guilty for letting it happen, this is the reason I'm so wary of people using water...) re the penny washers: I don't want to use anything on the lid because it will make opening/closing more stressful for me - if a bowl is also on there then surely when I lift the lid (it has a tilt-back mechanism) then it will topple off? Or if a gerbil is on there, I'd have to wait for them to jump off? My thoughts on the platform are that I can add a smaller house (flat roof) above it, and that is where the water bowl will go, and if doing that then I'd need a large and strong platform... LilyandDaisy yes, that's true... If its very difficult to put the bowl in the cage, I'll probably resort back to a bottle, but I don't even know if they'd know how to use it now with all this time using a bowl... :p Good idea about the wood paint - my gerbils used to urinate on this one shelf, by golly it got so smelly, was impossible to clean, just bleghr. However, there is another in their cage which they have fell in love with, and I don't think they've ever peed on it... The Elmato looks good, not as big as the laOla one, but that might be good because they'd have more cage space :) Thanks :)
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Post by Markpd on Aug 10, 2020 2:47:18 GMT -8
Lol, talk about crossed wires, I never said that I have a water bowl, just a sand bowl, as I mentioned heheh. I was just curious as to whether Gerbils who have access to a water bowl, if they ever paddled in it to cool off, I did think it was unlikely seeing as they are desert animals, but you never know, their might be some crazy Gerbil out there that loves to do that! lol Aww poor Pippin (and you!), but you were their to rescue her , so no permanent harm. But yea, I can imagine it was quite a shock! Very odd she didn't swim though. Re lid, ah I didn't know you had a hinged lid, I can't remember what setup you have (can you post a photo here of the tank and lid you have in mind?). A screwed on platform definitely wouldn't work there! lol. Actually, even for a mesh lid with no hinge, it would be very hard to lift it evenly to avoid spillages, and even then the bowl would have to be sat in a hole so it didn't slide off! Yea that idea wasn't a good one (it could be used for a sandbowl though, assuming the lid is strong enough). The house on a platform (with ramp or steps) sounds like a good idea . A question about the Elmato platform though, I see it's made from Plywood, I thought Gerbils weren't supposed to have that because of the glue used in them? It's not straightforward putting water into Gerbil cages is it?! lol
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Aug 10, 2020 3:49:19 GMT -8
I didn't notice the Elmato platform was made of plywood. In Germany they use birch plywood a lot which is apparently safe because it uses safe glues. I don't know whether the Elmato platform is birch plywood or ordinary plywood though.
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Post by betty on Aug 10, 2020 3:54:07 GMT -8
As for the chewing/swallowing questions (way back now) yes, they may chew it for sure and yes it could injure them - but they also chew solid wood up and never swallow any of get harmed from it - and it has massive splinters in it - and jabs ME more than chewed plastic ever did.
I'm not saying that plastic is safe by any means (and plastic dust is no good for anyone) so I don't use it for mine where it can simply be easily chewed - but plenty of gerbils have chewed their way out of their plastic cage over the past 50 years and come to no harm short-term harm.
I think that anything in the enclosure is an accident risk - but that gerbils have got a mouth-related safety system when chewing that makes sure they don't ingest particles of anything they are chewing - just like most rodents do with their special dental set up.
I would rather use wood for anything myself, but if the perspex is thick and easier to form into what you need shelf-wise - then I would say use it and see how they go. All gerbils are different - so if you have gerbs that dont chew solid stuff much - then you should be fine with it.
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Post by gerbilord on Aug 10, 2020 4:33:29 GMT -8
Lol I can imagine a gerbil wearing a swimsuit and goggles now XD I think the reason Pippin didn't swim was because she was in shock... and also the water was pretty cold so that probably paralysed her for a second... This is the cage I'm buying: www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small_pets/hutches_cages/hamster_cages/hamster_cages_wood/437277I have a plastic wheel in the gerbil's current cage which is completely open at the front, so the gerbils can easily chew it. Once I get the new cage, I'll replace it (its too small anyway) with a wooden one, for peace of mind, for one, also the plastic is really noisy when chewed, and for another, and its impossible to stop them chewing the wheel. (often I see the plastic dust right next to where they are snuffling which can't be good for them) I'm gradually going for a more natural look in the cage (the German way), cutting down plastic is probably a good idea too, I'm never going to go "fully naturalistic" though, I'm not getting my gerbils mucky with soil... Plants would be nice in the cage though :) I also like wood the most, for my critters its the only thing that takes them months to destroy :D btw, I actually was wondering about a gerbils teeth, completely unrelated and probably a stupid question: do they only have the incisors at the front or also molars which are not visible? It just always intrigued me that they can eat food with just the front teeth, but I guess rodents aren't exactly like humans...
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Post by Markpd on Aug 10, 2020 5:14:06 GMT -8
Ah yea, cold water can easily do that, very cold water certainly does that to people! Lol @ swimsuit , I was thinking rolled up trousers and a flat cap for paddling! Nice cage that Btw, an alternative to plastic or wooden wheels (which for the latter, as well as being chewable, if they wee on it that's apparently a right pain to clean!), is solid metal wheels by tictac (they are not meshed or runged!), they're not cheap mind you (nor look as natural, but you can get beige coloured) but they would easily out last plastic or wooden wheels (theirs one in my pups cage btw, although they haven't used it yet! lol). betty Interesting, and yea when I had Gerbils as a kid, they chewed some of the plastic on the cage, they never came to any harm. And what you said about wood splinters makes sense, I've wondered the same too, which makes me think that all these warnings about not having plastic items in the cage is hysteria!? I don't suppose plastic splinters off into bigger particles??
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Post by betty on Aug 10, 2020 5:40:54 GMT -8
Yes, plastic isn't natural - so the risk of internal injury I imagine is higher than a small wooden splinter as the wood may well be broken down by stomach acid.
I always found with wheels that if they weren't hung from the ceiling or in a completely spin-free location AND you had gerbils whole used them all the time - they always get chewed up.
Not many of my gerbils seemed to use the wheels all the time - but hung from the ceiling a jump up in the air were the longest lived of any material.
However, my duprasi totally LOVE their wheels and use them all the time - but eventually they will start the chew them up, bit by bit so you don't really notice...
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