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Post by Markpd on Jan 1, 2023 6:32:40 GMT -8
Hi betty, thanks , sorry to hear about the loss of your duprasi. Unfortunately my vets don't do postmortems (at least on gerbils anyway), they referred me to Surrey Uni vets college. I must admit I didn't ask other vets. Good to know a rough price, I would be willing to pay that. We'll see what the Uni quotes.
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Post by betty on Jan 2, 2023 6:41:51 GMT -8
A few people I know have a direct link to some unis where they have a pre-arranged system of priority postage so that they can get the experience and numbers of animals required to perform useful and thorough sampling at no or very little cost as it benefits the students/faculty directly.
I haven't managed to find one myself yet, but certainly something I think would be useful for keepers like me who have multiple animals. Great benefits for the fancy overall.
Finges crossed Surrey can help...
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Post by Markpd on Jan 3, 2023 12:31:45 GMT -8
So I spoke to Surrey Uni today, the cost of the post mortem & histology (which they said they probably can do despite him being frozen) will be £50+VAT (so £60). Which I'll be willing to do. The only down side is they can't give me his body back for burial afterwards , they could send him onto be cremated, and then I could have the ashes, but that's ~£80! (I think that included VAT). Which is rather a lot for something I don't want. Although I would quite like him to be buried in my garden.... Has anyone else found this after a post mortem? betty et al
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Post by betty on Jan 4, 2023 4:39:10 GMT -8
It is most likely just an individual in-house policy or procedure that they do there - either to do with timings or business needs.
The process of timings, storage, paperwork, explaination, rectifying the body afterwards, and general 'waiting to find things out' may just not be something they are willing or able to do - or may have had 'bad' experiences of previously. People not getting back to vets is very time-consuming overall for no extra income.
From personal experience, I have always got back whole individuals after a post mortem if I requested it - but I am more involved usually than just this first contact you have made yourself on this ocassion, so perhaps that has something to do with it. I have also chosen to leave some with vets through my choice though, so perhaps others have and this is just an assumption with many practices.
Their quoted cost for an individual cremation sound about right in the £80 area for a small animal without a wooden casket. I have never had a gerbil cremated myself though - but perhaps an inked set of footprints at home before he heads off might be a token for you instead for him if you really do want to find out the results of the PM.
Difficult decision.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 4, 2023 12:33:03 GMT -8
Hmm, ok, interesting, I wonder if some other local vet would be interested in doing it ...... *sigh* nothing's ever easy And no I'm not up for inked footprints, but thanks for the idea. I was thinking I could cut some of his fur off for keeping, or burial, but that's not the same....
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Post by Markpd on Jan 11, 2023 13:35:58 GMT -8
After speaking to the vet who saw Avon, he says he does do basic post mortems (reception got that wrong!), and FOC for the learning experience (fine by me!). And I'll get Avon back afterwards for burial. So I dropped Avon off there earlier, the vet's off work tomorrow, so I won't hear from him until Friday at the earliest.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jan 11, 2023 18:38:48 GMT -8
That is good news. I would have struggled with not having the body back for burial as well. Hopefully you will get some answers.
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Post by betty on Jan 13, 2023 2:58:34 GMT -8
Oh fanstastic - that is really great news. Certainly worth being persistant these days.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 17, 2023 13:45:26 GMT -8
Heard back from the vet today, and the basic post mortem was quite interesting and informative. So it seems that the bladder stone Avon had was restricting how much urine he was able to pass, this had lead to damage to the kidneys (I'm fairly sure he said hydronephrosis) which was likely occurring over the proceeding couple of months. Aside from the pain it presumably caused him (at least before he got the metacam), this would have lead to an excess of salts (in the blood I guess?), which in turn would've lead to heart arrhythmia. His heart was slightly enlarged, (which might simply be down to his age, although it might have been pathological, he wasn't able to determine. Presumably because it was just a basic PM), and in light of the fact that Avon seemed fine on the Saturday and passed away only 2 days later, he thought it likely that he'd suffered heart failure due to severe arrhythmia and a slightly weakened heart. He mentioned that in hindsight he probably could've picked up the kidney problems with a blood test (a blood test was talked about in the original consultation), but that's not without risk itself with small animals apparently, as they take the blood from the main vein leaving the heart. (Also I would've thought that an ECG would pick up heart rhythm problems, but he didn't mention that today). Anyway, he went onto say that if such a blood test had showed that kidney damage he would've advised to have Avon PTS there and then. So perhaps I had Avon for 1 more month as a result! In the future though, if I had another gerbil which had fallen ill as a result of a bladder stone, I think I will insist on an ECG at least (as he said he didn't hear any heart problems), and if/when they recovered well enough possibly a blood test too. Oh 1 other thing, I asked if we'd gone for surgery for the stone on the day (or next) whether that would have halted the kidney damage, he thought it may have slowed it down but not stop it, so Avon may well have lived a bit longer, but not much (assuming he survived the op). I wonder how many other gerbils with kidney problems are caused by stones? Thoughts?
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jan 17, 2023 14:21:14 GMT -8
That's all really interesting. So it was a bladder stone had, and not a gallbladder stone?
Can they do ECGs on gerbils? I would have thought the sticky pads are too big.
This is interesting to me as I suspected Lily had kidney/bladder stones and she developed congestive heart failure which was what she died from. I'm not sure whether electrolyte imbalance (imbalance of salts in the blood)can cause congestive heart failure though.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 18, 2023 12:56:36 GMT -8
Yea it was always a bladder stone (re my post 29/11), but somewhere along the line I got the wrong name, I can't imagine the vet would get that wrong, so it must have been me! lol. Re ECG, I'm sure he suggested that in the original consultation, I guess they use smaller pads? Unfortunately I didn't get to speak to the vet about it again as it didn't come to mind during the conversation. But I will soon get a chance to again as something's wrong with Blake's scent gland (I'll be posting a thread about that shortly). From my 10-20 minutes of reading about heart attacks and excessive salt from kidney failure, electrolyte imbalance doesn't cause congestive heart failure (which is a failure due to total or partial blockage of an artery feeding the heart), electrolyte imbalance disrupts electrical signals to the heart. That's how I read it anyway, like I said, I didn't spend ages reading about it .
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jan 18, 2023 13:07:21 GMT -8
Maybe he said echocardiogram? That's an ultrasound of the heart.
If it's any comfort, a death from heart arrhythmia is likely to have been very quick and relatively painless. Avon might not have ever known anything was wrong.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 18, 2023 13:33:00 GMT -8
Now that you mention it, that's what the vet said too about his death, at least he didn't suffer. And yea maybe he said the ultrasound one, I will ask.
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Post by icecontroller2529 on Jan 26, 2023 10:28:53 GMT -8
Sorry again for your loss, Mark.
What a relief that he (hopefully) didn't have to suffer.
Do you have a nice place where you can bury him?
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Post by Markpd on Jan 28, 2023 7:06:05 GMT -8
I shall be burying him in my back garden, which I (finally) will be doing in several minutes. Not sure I'd describe my garden as nice atm! Lol, but I'll be burying him in the wild patch I've left at the end of the garden, I'm sure he would have loved to have explored that :').
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