Going to get a new friend for Blake, intro advice wanted

[Markpd]

I was going to intro him to an adult rescue gerbil, but Gerbil and Rodent rescue don't have any single gerbils atm. I narrowly missed out on a 5 month male, but even if I hadn't, he was sort of the perfectly wrong age anyway.

I would either want a gerbil of similar age, so their would be a fair chance of them living to similar ages, or get a pup for (hopefully) an easier intro and when Blake does pass away (), the new gerbil will itself hopefully have a reasonably long time with another gerbil afterwards. If you follow me!

So it looks like it's going to be a pup, but either way I will need to do a split intro. I've read quite a few times what this involves and I'll list below what I recall, but I would like those experienced with splits to see if I have missed anything.

Also, atm I don't have time to search through all (relatively recent) previous threads regarding this, so if betty and LilyandDaisy et al you have replied to someone else in good detail in another thread you remember, then by all means just link me please .

Oh btw, from this list I'm going to create a split intro guide and sticky it (after the above requested input + consultation).

[under construction]

Max 40 gallons tank, or 40 gallons of a bigger tank, divided in 2, giving 20 gallons each.

Meshed divider, securely fastened (1/4" mesh with pups. And for adults earlier on, if going well this can be swapped for a 1/2" meshed divider near the end)

Minimal bedding - max 2"/5cm

No 'toys' at least for the last xx days of a longer split for adults, but some chew toys ok - (how long? I like the idea of toys in there at least earlier on, so at least they don't get too bored for longer splits)

Swap the gerbils end to end, preferably 3-4 times a day (but if you can't, whatever you can manage, although once per day is a minimum).

Split Intro Durations

Typical duration for adults, 2-4 weeks - (that sound right?)

Typical duration for pups, or pup(s*) with an adult, a few days to a week (that ok?).

*we'd advise to intro an adult to 1 pup, not more due, to increased risk of declanning when the pups grow up - (that sound right?)

And from a thread created by ps25, good and bad signs once the gerbils are introduced.

Sept 15, 2021 16:18:17 GMT -8 ps25 said:

Good signs
Sniffing faces and butts
Lowering the head to allow "kissing"
Relaxed, smooth movements
Smooth fur
Ears forward
Ignoring each other (going about their business eg eating, chewing cardboard)
Some minor tussles to establish dominance (one walks away and is not followed)
Grooming

Bad signs
Fur fluffed up to make them look bigger
Ears laid flat
Jerky movements
Positioning themselves sideways, especially with backs curved (looks like a big furry comma, or like 2 cats arching their backs before a fight)
Tussles with continued pestering/following immediately after
Holding the other gerbil down
Staying in a corner
Squeaking
Thumping

Tail swishing

Furious chasing around the cage (as in you can barely see them running, and they're banging into the side!)

[LilyandDaisy]

A single pup is safer but you could try a pair. I think it's less risky with males than with females. But if you're happy to introduce another gerbil in a few months, a single pup is probably the better option.

I would probably go smaller than 40 gallons for a split tank for a pup intro. It's supposed to be a very quick intro so I'd go for a standard 60cmish tank personally. I wouldn't even bother with toys really because it could be over so quickly. Maybe just some cardboard and hay. I've never done it myself, but I gather introducing a pup to a male gerbil is even easier than introducing one to a female gerbil and a few hours in a split tank can sometimes be enough, or if not a couple of days.

This isn't like an adult introduction where you need their scents to be distributed on both sides which takes time. A split tank introduction with a very young pup is really about making sure they (mostly the adult) are not going to be aggressive. Some people will do a neutral space introduction with male gerbils and pups which I can't really comment on though I know it's quite risky with females. Males are generally gentler with pups than females. Even with males, it still has to be safer to use a split tank for the first meeting, even if only for a couple of hours.

I think in general, half inch mesh is a little wide for a split because gerbils could do some real damage through it. I wouldn't ever use it with adults except later in an introduction when I can trust them. With a pup it would probably be okay (since the risk of aggression is low anyway), but if you're making a divider for future use, it would be better to use smaller mesh.

1-2 inches of bedding is about right.

Here is a recent pup introduction thread I was on: gerbilforum.proboards.com/thread/35959/first-introduction-journey

[Markpd]

Thanks for the reply L&D , it seems that some of my original post went missing, although possibly only the line about me running out of time (which I am again!).

Interesting, I didn't realise it could be that quick! .
Would you say this thread covers all the signs I/we should be looking into a split intro?

[LilyandDaisy]

Jan 5, 2023 13:38:38 GMT -8 Markpd said:

Thanks for the reply L&D , it seems that some of my original post went missing, although possibly only the line about me running out of time (which I am again!).

Interesting, I didn't realise it could be that quick! .
Would you say this thread covers all the signs I/we should be looking into a split intro?

Yes, I'd say that's a good list.

[betty]

Yes, I have had adult males to pups in a day - but it had to be the right male (and some of those were mob-intros so that isn't often an option for non-breeders).

I would certainly expect an older male-to-pup to be just a few days if the older male isn't bothered at all. Adding to the behaviours on the other thread - I always feel happy when I seen the older male either acting like the pup isn't there at all - or doing what I can only describe as the 'straining' or 'breath-holding' pose - where the pup is in their face or nearby and they just sort of stand totally still but look like they are really concentrating on something. I imagine them to be thinking 'it's a pup and it will be annoying but if I just let it do what it wants to do without moving - it will go away quicker'.

As said above I would always use a divide for first meeting no matter what age or gender - and I use the 1cm aviary wire for mine. I also always go small on the first enclosure - so either a specific small one or a larger enclosure divided down first - and then still halved. Ideally with mine - for a short split - I like a space each of around a foot square, maybe a little bigger.

[Markpd]

Lol, I can quite imagine an older gerbil ignoring a pesky pup!
So to add to the other thread, do you think saying for the 2nd behaviour you mentioned ('normal' ignoring is already in there), 'adult gerbil ignoring pup along with standing still and appearing to concentrate on something else' is right?

Btw betty do you actually mean 1cm mesh or 1/2" mesh? When I Googled 1cm mesh all but 1 of the results were 1/2" (12-13 mm) mesh on the 1st page, next step down is 1/4"(6 mm) mesh.
I have a 1/2" mesh divider already, but I have do have 1/4" mesh, so I could make another divider with that.

[LilyandDaisy]

I would imagine "ignoring" for two adults means both ignoring each other. If one adult was constantly getting in the other's face it might be concerning. On the other hand, it's typical for a pup to be quite annoying because they don't understand proper adult behaviour yet, and it's the adult's reaction that matters most.

1cm mesh is not as common as 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch mesh. 1/4 inch is fine too.

[Markpd]

Btw, a ~60cm long tank is a 20 gallon tank, right? (60x45x30cm?)

[LilyandDaisy]

A US 20 gallon is either about 60x30x40cm or 70x30x30cm (or thereabouts). 60x45x30cm would be around 20 gallons too and the right size for a split tank. My small split tank is 60x30x30cm, or 15 gallons but the length is more important than the volume.

[betty]

Yes to both of you - I always measured the inside space on my mesh which is little over 1cm, so in hindsight, that would be around 12-13mm from metal to metal - which is also (exactly) 1/2 an inch. I never really think to measure small in inches (and I bought 2 giant rolls of it about 10 years ago so haven't shopped for it since) - so sorry about the confusion.

I am not sure my exact wording is ideal to describe this standing still pose I have seen - but generally - as said above - you want the older adult to really not react to anything the other one is doing. Other than the occasional one-foot pin down moment, you want to see nothing. No raised backs, hair standing on end, tail swishing or siding on - just extended 'waiting' (understanding the pup is a pup and so tolerating the excitement) or turning away/walking off (like they tell you to do when a dog jumps up at you for attention).

[Markpd]

Inner edge to inner edge, mine is ~12mm, so perhaps yours is the lesser spotted 1cm mesh? . Must be thick mesh too!

I need to make something to blank off the rest of the cage, think I'll just use my current divider for keeping the gerbils apart.
I was debating asking Claire if I could pick up a gerbil Saturday morning, but I need to change a tyre on my car after it got destroyed hitting a pot hole! . Mind you, I should be able to do both (assuming the cage is ready, which is debatable).

[LilyandDaisy]

My mesh measures at 11/12mm internally as well.

If you have the mesh divider, you could always start the split on Saturday and divide the tank down further with the solid divider whenever it's ready.

[Markpd]

We'd all missed that I'd hadn't mentioned the swap interval in my list .

That seem ok?
And what about the toy question for adult gerbils? (hmm, I'm going to start a new thread for the upcoming guide.....)