stroppy forum

[RitzieAnn]

I'm glad this thread is staying civil, especially since I'm not around enough to stay on top of it this week. Thank you. I appreciate it. And I appreciate each of you individually.

I'm also disappointed though. There are several active members that aren't posting here. I know it's not because they "haven't seen the thread" So I wonder why....

As Admin, it's sometimes hard to stay up with things. I'm new to web stuff, and new to forums. Now I'm sitting here running the entire thing, and getting questions I don't know how to answer. I've joined Proboards support forum, so I'm trying to learn and help you guys out.

I'm sorry that some of you feel "afraid" to post. Please don't. One should never be afraid to ask questions.

I remember- a few months back, right after my move, I posted about Chocolate and how his front paws were swollen because a divider had broke down on our road trip down. There was nothing I could do to fix it. I bashed up thick cardboard to it hoping to make it stay up, but it didn't work. So Chocolate was hurt (and is now fine) but I got PMs from 2 different members saying "some things are best left unsaid" and that I should know better "because youre admin now and people look up to you." Well, gosh, accidents happen. While my divider was secure when I packed them into the car- there was nothing I could do about it. It was a mistake. I did NOT remove my posting though. I've never removed any of my threads. I know you guys "look up" to me, either because you like "me" or because i'm "Admin" but I don't believe in hiding things. We learn from each others stories/experiences... and... mistakes.

Oh- and I had a clan of 8 males that I was very happy with- until I found out I had to move, so I had to split them up and rehome them.

[SilverGerbil]

I totally agree their Ritzie thats the problem. You had a genuine accident one that you cannot possibly help and a gerbil got injoured, not your fault. So those people who messaged you should have buttoned their mouths and not said anything as it isnt very fair for them to pick on you for this.

Also alot of people on this forum look up to people who are honest and true about things, about their stories, experiences and the mistakes that they have made...

Which is why alot of people look up to you and several other members on this forum, i know i like to hear from the people i value and look up to but that personally is myself.

Gerbils can live in big groups, they do in the wild so why not in captivity? Aslong as you look after them propperly and make sure their actuially introduced or family first hand then you shouldnt have any problems unless something disrupts the clan.

xoxox

[dippy]

I totally agree with everyone on here. A while ago, I was afraid to post anything because people kept attacking me by telling me all the billions of things I was doing wrong. And that feels terrible. However, I got over it and although I haven't been on the forum for a while (I've missed everyone!) I'm no longer afraid to post things. I seriously don't care what those negative trolls say....it's not like their always right. I can also think of 2 of them off the top of my head. I'm not saying you can never give people advice. But it IS possible to tell someone that a tank is a better choice for a gerbil home than a wire cage is other than "You better get a tank immediately! Gerbils will DIE and be MISERABLE in wire cages! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!" I'm not saying I've never posted negative stuff like that, but I really do try to do it as little as possible....forums really are the most helpful when people stay respectful, and don't act like giant hatred machines. I remember when Fritz was sick and I asked people what to do and I got tons of replies from angry people telling me how he never should have gotten sick in the first place and blah blah blah and how it seemed to be all my fault that my mom was hesitant to take him to the vet. That isn't helpful at all, seriously. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who was thinking about this. This thread is one of the best things I've seen all week. Oh, one final note - I don't think we should heighten the age limit. Not all kids are immature and stupid. I'm only 14, and would hate to have to leave the forum... =(

[RitzieAnn]

The age limit won't change, but when I get back home I want to set up a mod meeting and I plan to discuss with them about really cracking down on this stuff. I'm tired of hearing the excessive negative comments from members- a few members more than others... and I think maybe we'll start reprimanding them. A lot of forums are way way more strict than we are. Perhaps a disabled account for 24 or 48 hours is needed.

The mods and I will disucss this stuff together.

Also- the only PMs I ever get about these issues are things like "so and so sent me a rude PM about my thread" Well- I won't get into PMs. Those are called "private" messages, and I'm not going to try and moderate them. I've gotten a few "good job" PMs (thank you) but sugguestions are always more welcome than mindless complaints.

[Vixen]

Ritzie sounds like your gonna do a great job (not that you already are not)

I sorry I could'nt help more myself by suggesting things, and I do hope you did'nt think my starting this thread was a little out of line

[dancinggorditas]

When I joined this forum, I read a lot of the threads and all the comments and information I could on here. I expected there to be a lot of good solid information on here from firsthand experiences.
I was surprised and I must confess, somewhat amused by the drama going on. I mean, people sending loaded replies and sentences that downright accused the other of being a moron!
I was like geez, are these people power tripping about their gerbil knowledge? (sorry guys, it's what I first thought)
At first I was a little tentative to post anything, based on some of the responses I'd seen in the other posts....but I've been posting and doing my best to care for my gerbils and make good decisions on how to care for them.
If some comments are a bit sharty or what have you, it's only to remind people that these are certain protocols to follow to make sure your gerbils are receiving the best care they possibly can. Also, sharty comments are sometimes not sharty at all!
Simple typed messages can totally be taken out of context and you have to remember that, simply by using caps lock or exclamation points you can add negative connotations.
Anyways, I find this gerbil forum to be very helpful, and if I'm reprimanded slightly for making a mistake, it's simply to reinforce that I have made a mistake and shouldn't do it again!
Well....I hope things stay happy on here. Fighting virtually is totally lame :-P
Linds

[genie]

without quoting, im glad you didn't remove that post Ritzie. If mistakes or accidents happen, it's better that people can learn from it. Things like divides and splitcages for example seem so easy to make, but without knowing the simple mistakes others have made, someone else will do the same.
We should all just ignore completely any nasty comments <--too idealistic?

[doomgerbiluk]

There are two problems here that I see that this thread covers.
First there are people who 'ask' for advice with no intention of taking it, those who really want people to say 'yes of course your doing it right' and for whom anything else is people 'getting at them'. These people need to grow up.
Secondly is the 'getting personal'. This happens a lot and is totally unacceptable. Advice cannot always be totally impersonal but should be voiced in a neutral or, if possible, a friendly way. Debates should be the same. The difference between a debate and an argument is just that, the ability to be as impersonal in your argument as possible. My advice to anyone using a forum is to see viewpoints different from your own as an opportunity for debate, a chance to present your views and arguments without upset on either side.
If you are a person who cannot accept advice or cannot debate but need to turn everything into an argument, then don't use a forum, it's just not right for you.
Another forum I use had to introduce strict rules about arguments in threads. Threads which looked to become 'heated' would be closed. To compensate they started a new, 'hidden', debate forum where only those who have asked to join post and strict rules about not getting personal are in place. The subjects discussed are the same which caused major disruption in the main forum, yet the ill-feeling, insults etc just don't happen.
Now I don't think such a move is desirable or necessary here, but I do think that if people just learned how to debate instead of argue this and many other forums would have far less problems.

[sandy]

That's bizarre, Mermum...a new "hidden" debate forum?! So you're only allowed to argue or present a dissenting opinion, if you are a trusted member?

Somehow I feel that's a bit ominous. Like dissenting opinions are not welcome from "just anyone." So not only is that forum setting up a sort of club, with members only rules, but people are not even allowed a dissenting opinion. Like only the ruling class gets to say what the accepted dogma is?!! Boy, talk about political!

I know this forum gets a bit "stroppy" or shall we say scrappy at times, but like in a family, it is more natural that way. Just people, try to keep friendly and keep the claws in. Try.

[doomgerbiluk]

lol
Not exactly
Just when arguments get personal the thread is closed. There's plenty of different views and ideas, especially on animal care. The forum is www.bugnation.co.uk
Any member can ask to join the debate forum, obviously if they break the rules they will be barred from it for a while.
And it's generally used for the more extreme subjects, for instance racism, the death penalty, gun laws, hunting etc.
My point was that the big problem in forums is that too many people have no debating skills and therefore can only deal with opposing views by attacking the individuals or taking umbrage.
I personally think debate is healthy and that by seeing and respecting all views we learn to be more tolerant and to understand that few things in life are black and white.

[sandy]

Yeah. Well I can see your point there.

[whitmoregirl]

I agree with Sandy and Gill, a forum is about debating at times(and of course teaching and offering advice too), as this is a good way to put over correct methods of gerbil keeping, breeding or welfare.
However saying this, and as an ex-admin on here, I'm honestly at a loss as to why this forum continues to be so deconstructive and stroppy at times, or enough to warrant a thread on the subject.
We have debates on eGerbil, and never have a need for censorship, locking or deleting posts, nor temporary locks on threads so members can have a “cool off” period. We still employ the guest function and only very rarely have we had trolls; we continue to keep it on as it does serve a useful function, especially for emergencies. The atmosphere is always good and the standard of posts remain high, and members are quite thoughtful in writing posts and replies with the gerbils' welfare in highest regard (which seems to have slipped here in favour of throwing punches), and any arguments or dissents are sorted out in an adult manner.

I know this forum gets a bit "stroppy" or shall we say scrappy at times, but like in a family, it is more natural that way.

Well personally, I think if that's how you want to view it, family members should strive to keep a happy family atmosphere if at all possible, and not all behave like the stereotypical, dysfunctional teenager (let's face it, a family can barely handle one, nevermind a hoarde of them!)

[RitzieAnn]

I believe I've seen the option to have a hidden board that I can set differently so that some members can view it. However, I don't really want to make one. Not yet anyway. I think that members need to grow up. Seriously. I just find it dumbfounding that so many of our "argumentative" members are <i> adults </i>!

I've humored one or two trolls, as it really was pretty hillarious to see the lies and webs they knit for themselves. I really don't understand why people would bother. It's so hard to make up such simple lies. Seriously... I remember lies like "yes, I swept the barn today...." when I was in Elementary school... a little bit in middle school, but I was like 12 and younger. Then I realized that it's SO much easier to get around in life with the TRUTH.

The guest function is still here, though limited. I check it every time I log in.

Whitty, I don't know what the difference between the forums really are. I've got good things (and poor things) to say about both. I think this goes for other forum too. Really though I have to say that people just need to grow up.

If you don't like the presence/attitude or whatever about the forum (ANY form) then leave. If you think ANY forum is arguementitave or whatever, then dont waste your time.

[doomgerbiluk]

Exactly Whitty.
On BN the problem was [mainly] a large number of teenagers (no offence teens) getting stroppy, (as we all know teens often have very polarised views).
It is surprising [on this forum] that so many adults behave in that manner.
Oh and Ritzy please DON'T go down the hidden forum road, it really wouldn't be appropriate. It works in BN because the forum has a much wider range of ages and individuals. I think on this forum it would be divisive and I certainly wasn't suggesting it as an option. My point that was this; when people don't get personal and can make reasoned [and still sometimes passionate] arguments it is possible to have a positive experience from online debating/ argument.
It is really important that adults set a good example, after all that is how children [teens] learn to behave.
That last remark btw was inappropriate. For those of us who are ex-mods/admins resigning does not mean stopping caring!! After all the discussion about not being stroppy that remark seemed pretty stroppy to me!!

[RitzieAnn]

Oops, Doom, for you and anybody else- I didn't mean by leaving you don't care. I just mean for any person on any forum- if it irritates, you- is it really worth your time? Mostly this is dirrected to the few members on ANY forum who pick fights or are always negitive. I've stopped frequenting a few forums because the members were so close minded. I still "troll around" and read, but I hardly post because the people aren't nice. Doesn't mean I don't care about the forum(s). I never said Whitt (or anybody else) didn't care.