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Post by sweetie on Aug 15, 2004 18:03:43 GMT -8
Hey there,
Just wanted to update you all on the training issues. Josh had asked about possibilities and training gerbils. Well we got into a discussion regarding clicker training. I started about a week ago!!!! It works. I have associated the "click" with the sunflower seeds. This is potentially a great thing. I am thinking of using it to encourage them to come to me when they are out running around and it's time to go back in to the houses.
Now when I click once, they all come running. Of course not all at the same speed. Sweeite is in hyper drive, Blackie is in turbo, Cowboy is close behind in 6th gear and Bubba well lets just say his name says it all!!! LOL
There are good things that can come from training. It is best when it is in conjunction with thier natural instincs and utilizes their current skills set. It is a win win situation. I need them to go back in to thier houses with out expending more time trying to chase them down and they are now being rewarded for coming to me ;D
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Post by Josh on Aug 19, 2004 2:27:03 GMT -8
Cool stuff. Sounds like it you are starting off right. Can't wait for any more updates.
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Post by RyanF on Aug 19, 2004 6:30:38 GMT -8
LOL! That is so cool! Did you use one of those dog training clickers? I think I should try that with my gerbils.
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Post by sweetie on Aug 22, 2004 19:07:14 GMT -8
Yes I did use a dog clicker. They were confused with the noise at first but you should see them come running when they hear it now. The only time they get sunflower seeds is with the use of the clicker!! I am going to attempt it at least twice a day for another month before I start to up the training. It works great if I need to get them to put them back in the houses.
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Post by queenofthenile on Aug 23, 2004 4:56:12 GMT -8
With the training are you going to used visual signals or sounds? Are gerbils' eyesight good enough to use visuals? Do your gerbils get confused because you have two tanks and so each click doesn't translate into a treat? (I have 4 tanks so I'm thinking it would be hard)
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Post by sweetie on Aug 23, 2004 5:37:59 GMT -8
Hey Queenie,
The clicker is a sound device. I figured that the sound would get thier attention quicker than a visual que. Especially because they are never all in the same area at the same time.
The sound is used then I give them a treat. I thought it would be hard since all of them could hear the sound then sinceI only have 2 hands I couldn't possibly get all 4 treats immediately to incresase the reinforcement. I tried to do it in the cages at first and they where leary of the noise. After a few tries, they became used to the noise and then they were very eager to get the treat. As a matter of fact, if they where in different areas of the house or sleeping, they came quickly to the area where the treats were given.
There was a study done regarding the use of intermittant reinforcers. The study was done with pigeons (of course the study was in a book I read for college and that was ages ago) and the conclusions indicated that as long as the reinforcers were intermittant, the pigeons still continued teh desired behavior. That seems to be the case with my little ones also. When they are out, I let them run around the living room for a little while to expend some energy then I click and they come to me for the treats.
It is really interesting. I am not sure how good thier eye sight is. I know gerbils tend to have different sight than humans so I do not think I will use hand signals with them. Maybe something I could do in the future. With hand signals, you need to make sure you have eye contact with them and that is sometimes difficult. My dogs on the other hand (no pun intended) are great with hand signals.
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Post by queenofthenile on Aug 23, 2004 5:44:01 GMT -8
I was taught some stuff on clicker training at work the other day. First you "load the clicker" - associate the treat with the clicking sound. Then you start the training. You use a hand signal to indicate what you want and slowly teach the dog what that hand signal means. I guess I'm curious how you will teach them what action you wish for them to perform is you don't use hand signals. Or will they run a maze without needing a prior signal to tell them what to do?
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Post by j on Aug 23, 2004 12:48:53 GMT -8
Eh makes sense.
Whenever I talk to my gerbils, I kind of call them and they come out to the top of the tanks and get excited and standing up looking for me. I've been talking to them since they were born though.
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Post by sweetie on Aug 23, 2004 18:32:24 GMT -8
Queenie, The dogs are more observant of you and hand sgnals. In other words, the dogs look to the trainer. In the gerbils case, the trainer has to look to the gerbil. Clicker training is an end to a means. With the dogs the transition to total hand signals is most often the objective. My dogs know hand signals but they were not taught them with the clicker. I am not sure I will be able to get the attention needed for hand signals with the gerbils. It takes a lot of focus on the trainer. I have not recieved that undivided attention from the gerbils to date. The difficulty I now face is that like you said it is difficult to reinforce every click with a treat since I have 4 gerbs and 2 hands. I am still in the association or "loading" stage. I want to make sure that I associate other treats with the clicker. The object there is that I want to find out what treat is the stronger reinforcer for which gerbil. I don't want to use sunflower seeds with Bubba if he would rather have a carrot. He will work more for a carrot than a sunflower seed. Since I can't use carrots everyday, I need to make sure that I use something that won't ruin thier diet but that I can train them daily. Has that clarified anything? I tried but now think it may have been more confusing!
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Post by RyanF on Aug 23, 2004 18:35:03 GMT -8
I just bought my dog clicker and is it LOUD! I will start training when I get back from Michigan on Monday. I leave Wednesday.
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Post by sweetie on Aug 23, 2004 18:42:13 GMT -8
Hey Ryan, Have fun on vacation. ;D The clicker is loud and they may be shy at first. When they realize that they are getting a sunflower seed they will be okay. First give them the seed, when they take the seed, click. I do it sitting Indian style on the floor then I put the clicker in between my legs so that the sound was muffled. Now I use the full sound when they are scattered and I want them to come to me. J, It is amazing how responsive these little ones are. They even love voices and associate your voice with excitement and fun!! What better sound than a mom's voice.
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Post by queenofthenile on Aug 23, 2004 18:42:21 GMT -8
That makes sense to me, sweetie. I guess the only thing I am unsure about is how to teach them more than one trick. You can only get the click/treat to reinforce one specific behaviour if you don't add an accompanying sound or signal. For instance, if I want to teach my gerbs to sit and rollover (okay stupid examples, but I couldn't think of anything else ), you need to add an additional signal. Otherwise, how will the gerbil know that you want it to sit, rather than rollover? Does that make any sense?
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Post by blackie on Aug 24, 2004 11:38:48 GMT -8
One of your gerbils is called Blackie ? I like that.
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Post by blackie on Aug 24, 2004 11:42:17 GMT -8
I have some problems getting my gerbils back to their home when they are running on the floor. They just jump out of my hand... if I catch one gerbil it will send a warning signal in gerbil language that I can't hear to the other gerbil..I am sure of this, because the other one will hide from me...they use ultrasound.
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Post by sweetie on Aug 24, 2004 12:18:46 GMT -8
Blackie, Yes they are amazing with the telepathy and the ultrasound. They send out the signal before you get the first one in the tanks! I have 2 girls Sweetie & Blackie and 2 males Cowboy & Bubba. I saw your name and thought wow that's cool!! Queenie, You can get any animals to do multiple tasks with the clicker. The clicker is eventually the re-inforcer by itself with out the treat. From that aspect, what you do is called shaping. When you figure out what it is that you want the animal to do, you then re-inforce mini movements through the use of the clicker. For example. if you want the animal to learn how to sit then you break down the behavior into incriments. Let's use a dog and sitting. First you re-inforce the animal for standing still. Then you get thier attention with your hand and hold it up abovethe head so that they put thier head up and reinforce for that. When the dog puts his head up, the butt tends to go down when you move your hand back over thier head and you re-inforce the sitting. The big thing with this, is you need the attention and eye contact. First, before doing anything with the animal (dogs) you need to make sure you are able to get and keep thier attention. This aspect by itself is difficult with gerbils since thye run around all the time. I am still trying to work plausible applications with the gerbils!!
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