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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 5, 2021 9:48:07 GMT -8
I saw that on Facebook. They looked like they had some silvery colouration rather than being pure white?
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Post by betty on Apr 5, 2021 10:13:20 GMT -8
Yes, there were two - one looked more plain white and the other looked like a really soft grey agouti type - didn't it?
Difficult to compare to a single normal gerbil gene?
uwd in gerbils - to get grey agouti - gets rid of the ginger and black but keeps the full grey undercoat - which this doesn't of course.
Polar foxes looks more like this colour-wise - but of course that is 2 separate genes - so very unlikely to have appeared for the first time together (although not impossible of course).
Creams need the pink eyes.
Colourpoints can do this (and give BEWs) but of course this again is two seperate genes?
Are there any colours in hamsters that this matches instead????
I will have to have a look around...
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 5, 2021 11:08:28 GMT -8
I don't know much about hamster colours but I can't remember ever seeing one of any species that looked similar.
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Post by Markpd on Apr 5, 2021 11:19:13 GMT -8
Awesome! Any Pics of the white dups?
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Post by betty on Apr 5, 2021 11:29:54 GMT -8
You'd have to search online - the post says don't share online without permission unfortunately - so it might be easier to find it yourself...
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Post by Markpd on Apr 7, 2021 10:00:35 GMT -8
Oh, I thought you said you had the white dups, my bad
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Post by betty on Apr 7, 2021 13:58:32 GMT -8
No, unfortunately - like I said the image was shared from the States - so I have no idea where the actual white doops are.
Shame there are no white-out hamster colours either that could cause that washed-out look?
We shall just have to wait a bit longer to find out more then...
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 7, 2021 14:03:35 GMT -8
What's the process involved in finding out exactly what (genetically) is behind an odd-looking animal? Is there a genetic test to show which gene is different?
First it has to be shown to be a heritable mutation, I suppose? As opposed to a one off anomaly with that animal (not very likely if there are two, I would assume).
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Post by betty on Apr 8, 2021 4:52:28 GMT -8
Yes, exactly - is it replicable (which may need several further litters depending on your thoughts on linebreeding). Then I would imagine they would see how it replicates (dominant, recessive, linked, etc), they usually then give it a token name for starters - something that fits the bill from what they know to be the most likely thing from those first few pairings (such as G in gerbils). Then they would see how it affected the hair itself (what colours were missing, which colours expanded or shrank and try to find another gene that acted the same way in another animal. In other animals - sometimes a new gene can be interacted with existing genes to see if it follow a prescriptive pattern for example (such a pp with A* makes ginger, but pp with aa makes silver). Generally they try to keep the final 'gene' that same in all the fancies and often will have to change a name if it were to cause confusion. I would imagine in a doop this could then change if it reacts to any further genes found in a different way. But yes, seeing as it is the first time a potential new colour has appeared in doops, I have no idea on what wil actually happen? I wonder if our resident genetics expert Shooting Star could help us out?
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Post by Shooting Star on Apr 10, 2021 8:35:57 GMT -8
The pic has been shared as being from "somewhere in the UK", but no other info. From the photo, it appears to be something akin to chinchilla, a C-locus mutation that's not present in gerbils to date. Chinchilla doesn't cause dark points, but rather strips phaeomelanin (yellow-red pigment) from the entire coat while leaving dark eyes and ticking.
For actual identification, they'd have to do test-breeding and ideally look at hairs under a microscope.
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Post by betty on Apr 10, 2021 15:26:03 GMT -8
Thanks for that - and it appears as though the duprasi are in Thailand - there was just someone in the UK who apparently shared one of the pictures. However, the owners/keepers have since shared further videos of their pups - so I think it is common knowledge now where they are - but not what they are genes-wise or any plans for their breeding. So - enjoy - LINK TO OWNERS FB PAGE
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Post by Markpd on Apr 11, 2021 8:35:43 GMT -8
Nice one, thanks betty . And it's so adorable
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Post by betty on Apr 12, 2021 14:40:24 GMT -8
Yes, they certainly have a certain quality about them don't they? Interesting that there are two in the litter though - I wonder if that means anything specific about the way it is inherited if there is more than 1 of them? I was thinking if it was a one off congenital mutation - like a chimera - wouldn't it have only been in one pup? Even a recessive gene alone is usually 1 in 4 - not 2 in 4 - but I know they are only probabilities - not 'actual' figures so maybe not so relevant. Also a dominant gene would have had to have shown in one of the parents too - as it is unlikey they both become the first dominant ones together (unless you can get identical twins with rodents?). Am I just clutching at straws Shooting Star? I know patience is a virtue - but I like to try to talk things around sometimes?
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Post by Shooting Star on Apr 15, 2021 3:29:11 GMT -8
With two of the new color in one litter, it's most likely a recessive mutation carried by both parents. It is certainly possible that it's a new dominant mutation that first appeared in a set of identical twins, but far less likely.
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Xellie
member
6 awesome gerbils <3
Posts: 34
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Post by Xellie on May 4, 2021 21:39:08 GMT -8
Oh my goodness, those white pups are adorable.
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