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Post by betty on May 5, 2021 4:35:41 GMT -8
Aren't they?
Nohing else so far online that I have seen about them -might have to do a bit of digging later...
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Post by kevinbevin on Dec 19, 2021 7:46:12 GMT -8
Hi, I couldn't find any conclusive answer on this anywhere else so I figured I would ask here: Can you house a duprasi in an IKEA Detolf without them gnawing their way out of the sides? I'm a hamster owner looking into getting a duprasi as a breeder near me has gotten a breeding pair and read my way to conclude that they are quite awesome little rodents
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Post by Markpd on Dec 19, 2021 13:04:42 GMT -8
I know regular Gerbils are kept in Detolfs without problems AFAIK (as long as the base is supported), I wouldn't think it would be any different for a duprasi from a chewing point of view. But I have zero experience of them! Hopefully betty will pop in soon And maybe Thea can pipe up about using a Detolf?
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Post by betty on Dec 19, 2021 23:45:55 GMT -8
Well kevinbevin - they are indeed awesome little rodents! They can chew just as much and as fast as a normal gerbil if they want to - but are just much less likely to want to than a normal gerbil. I have had them chew new doorways in wooden houses, finish off a tube of cork in a weekend and chew out of a temporary plastic carrier (with a small starter hole) in an evening. However, saying that - people have them in wooden enclosures and detolfs without issue most of the time. In fact detolfs are prefered to ordinary tanks so that there is more useable floor space for them to charge around on - they totally love running about all night. There are plenty of 3ft+ vivs out there - both wood and glass - which are suggested as best for the side opening aspect too (some doops can be defensive from a top-opener). UPDATE ON THE WHITE ONES:It looks like it is a heritable trait as there a videos online of a female with a litter where around 50% are white again. There are no details whether they were line bred or outcrossed for this - so still unclear on whether it is dominant or recessive. However - they have dark eyes. Which is awesome and most likely rules in a chinchilla/greying/leucistic gene rather than a colourpoint gene at work. But Shooting Star may have a more educated guess there... We must wait some more.
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Thea
Member
Posts: 1,012
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Post by Thea on Dec 21, 2021 1:39:42 GMT -8
Exciting, thanks for the update betty! About Ikea Detolfs - I'd imagine they would be fine for doops, especially if there is less likelihood of them chewing than Mongolian gerbils as betty says. I have two (Mongolian) gerbils in an Ikea detolf and have never attempted to chew their way out - it's pretty strong/thick wood too, with no corners that they could easily get a grip on. I can't say that for all cages with wood, although the Detolf certainly seems safe to me I've also never heard on any animal managing to chew their way out of a Detolf.
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Post by kevinbevin on Jan 17, 2022 11:05:13 GMT -8
Hello, I am back with another doop question How social are they? I keep hearing mixed opinions on their need for friends, some saying strictly solitary and others saying strictly social. If they are social, do male pairs work, or should males be kept seperate? Are trios better than pairs like with mice?
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Post by betty on Jan 18, 2022 4:43:45 GMT -8
Well, this certainly is one where you won't get a straight answer - due to them being quite rare and also kept in very low numbers by most people. And they are certainly not 'strictly solitary' as they are already kept together by many people - maybe 'selectively solitary' would be a more appropriate phrase? Doops are, after all, very individual creatures.
Generally though, people looking for lovely cuddle pets prefer to keep them alone, and people who love doops as cute exotics overall are often more happy to take a pair or even a trio. One of the main factors in this choice is the space and cost of buying a full duplicate set up at short notice if it doesn't work out.
When not many people have an animal, and they often only have 1 or 2 as pets for their full lives - they don't really get a true representation of the species overall and often; one thing happens (like they get a grumpy/ill/unsocialised individual) and their one experience of that gets repeated over an over and almost moves into 'fact' domain. Same as with the stories of normal gerbils 'killing and eating each other', which clearly isn't true but which is always repeated in every instance of a part chewed gerbil.
I know for a fact that many of my doops don't really like other doops - and they will let them know this early on if you listen to them - usually before the 8 week mark. They will squabble, chase and sleep in different places - they will also often nip each others tails relentlessly (in true doop fashion) even if sometimes still sleeping together (?).
However, others seem to be fine with others; all sleep together, share their wheels and don't bite each others tails. Doops never share live food though (the little vampires).
Talking with other breeders and keepers, we haven't noticed an obvious pattern with who is best with who as there isn't enough unbias data. Only by recording what we see happening on a larger scale and over a longer time can we expand on that truthfuly. Everyone has an opinion so far based on their own current pair or someone they read about of course - but large scale - the jury is still out.
I am happy to keep doops together who haven't made it clear they want to be alone in any combinations - so mum/daughter, sister/sister, brother/brother and father/son (and long-term male/female) and I couldn't call it either way as not only are the numbers still limited, the combinations haven't all lived out their full lives yet.
I currently have only a handful of pairs together - and only one of those have been together for more than 18 months (mother/daughter) the rest are all less than 12 months.
It's a common saying with doops/gerbils that 'mine live together just fine' - but like with normal gerbils - we know that can change overnight and seemingly out of the blue - so anything that isn't 'finished yet' can't be taken as fact.
Sorry the answer isn't any more straight forward!
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Post by kevinbevin on Jan 18, 2022 10:27:52 GMT -8
Thank you, I'll remember that! I don't have the space for two large cages right now, so I won't risk it with a pair or trio. Perhaps in the future
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Post by betty on Jan 19, 2022 1:19:35 GMT -8
Yes, that is the common consensus.
If they don't mind living alone anyway - they are no worse off as singles.
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Post by Shooting Star on Jan 22, 2022 8:57:19 GMT -8
UPDATE ON THE WHITE ONES:It looks like it is a heritable trait as there a videos online of a female with a litter where around 50% are white again. There are no details whether they were line bred or outcrossed for this - so still unclear on whether it is dominant or recessive. However - they have dark eyes. Which is awesome and most likely rules in a chinchilla/greying/leucistic gene rather than a colourpoint gene at work. But Shooting Star may have a more educated guess there... We must wait some more. Finally noticed the tag... Chinchilla is a C-locus gene: c(ch). Not acromelanistic albinism like our c(chm) and c(h), it doesn't cause color points, but many genes on that locus don't. I don't know of a C-locus mutation that takes color all the way to white without majorly affecting eye color, though. Without knowing more, I can only guess it's something like Underwhite, uw.
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Post by betty on Jan 23, 2022 6:47:11 GMT -8
Ah sorry - yes, I had misworded my colourpoint comment. I meant the chinchilla colours - not the chinchilla gene.
And we shall certainly have to wait to find out more.
Are there any patterns in the rate and order/likelihood of certain mutations coming along overall in rodents/mammals/gerbilids - or is it totaly random? Interesting thoughts.
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Post by Shooting Star on Jan 23, 2022 16:34:19 GMT -8
Piebald and nonagouti mutations generally show up early in domestication, as does full albinism, though that seems to have skipped Mongs. Aside from those, I'm not sure about any usual order.
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Post by betty on Feb 5, 2022 5:34:34 GMT -8
Here is a really clear image of the white doops just been released online (not my images) - Shooting Star , they sort of have a really light PFox dusting to them in some images (not all images attached): Image of facesImage of backs(sorry about the links if they don't work first time)
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Feb 5, 2022 9:44:19 GMT -8
They are very pretty with their white fur and pink tails and ears. Are the eyes fully black or do they have any red tint?
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Post by betty on Feb 6, 2022 7:37:32 GMT -8
None of the images seem to show a red tint at all that I can see in the eyes - however they have certainly lost all the ginger colour on the hairs of the tails and the ears though. Dark Eyes - And Greyish?These are new images of the white ones with the normal agouti ones and they are moulting a bit towards their rump - perhaps why I could see the Polar Fox creamy-ness on them a bit - although in these new images it looks decidedly 'grey agouti' grey - perhaps that it the colour of the dying white hairs or the base of the agouti hairs having been retained underneath. Could mean something to someone with a bit more 'hair follicle' knowledge for sure?? As for me - not a clue. I wonder what the gene is for BEWs in other species - as in normal gerbils the BEWs need 2 genes to show (so very unlikely to be the cause of these). Might have to go hamster gene hunting for starters...
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