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Post by zb on Nov 15, 2021 11:29:14 GMT -8
Thank you - yes I never knew the parents of my two.
Regarding mesh instead of Perspex - I would prefer mesh for their benefit for the social reasons you’ve mentioned. My problem is that I can’t work out how to attach it to the kind of gerbilarium I’ve got. It’s a tank at the bottom and then the cage part sits on clips inside that (so 5mm narrower all the way around on the top half) and there’s also a vent on one side of the tank part which is inverted by a few mm. So basically we can’t see a way of getting a tight fit unless we get a custom cut bit of Perspex because it’s not a perfect rectangle it needs all these sections which are cut out of it... Is your mesh divider on a wooden frame? If I did manage to make one of those it would leave gaps that they could potentially gnaw at. Tricky.
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Post by Markpd on Nov 15, 2021 12:16:44 GMT -8
Yes mine is on a wooden frame.
Couldn't you cut slots or add slats to the wooden frame to match the size irregularities?
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Post by gerbilord on Nov 18, 2021 13:29:03 GMT -8
2 sisters, age at beginning: 6 weeks (or younger). Age at end: 2.5 years (Merry passed). Pippin living happily alone now. Clan was successful. 1st cage: small pet shop cage - maybe 50cm by 20cm. Had them in here for only a few weeks. 2nd cage: 30cm by 30cm by 60cm (l, w, h) - over a year in here. :/ Some mild issues - mild worry of a declan when adults at about 1.5 years - minor disputes etc. Never any blood drawn or serious fights. 3rd cage (current): 120 x 50 x 70cm. No issues in this cage, just very happy until the end.
Clan size - 2 Relationship - sisters Age at beginning of clan - from birth Age at end of clan - 2.5 yrs And/or, time together - from birth Cage size - 30x30x60 cm (1+yr) > 120x50x70 cm (est. 1yr) Declanned? - no
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Post by kerry on Dec 26, 2021 6:39:09 GMT -8
4 gerbils all girls from same litter. 7 weeks old when we got them and 16months old when we split them Glass tank, single level 75cm long 45cm wide 37cm high All got on great till a few weeks ago when one started to hump the others quite a bit. Then the smallest started to be picked on by the "humper" and this progressed fast to bad fighting. We took the dominant one out and the others relaxed, but then after research and talking to Mark we then paired her up with another one and we'll keep a close eye the next few days.
Clan size - 4 Relationship - sisters Age at beginning of clan - since birth Age at end of clan - 16 months Cage size - 75x45x37 cm Declanned? - yes Aggravating factor(s) - unknown
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Post by Markpd on Dec 26, 2021 14:30:43 GMT -8
Sorry to hear that your girls declanned, but thanks for the info kerry , as we gather more data over time, we'll at some point be able to give some info and guidance over the different risk factors. Every account helps!
Note to future posters, it seems notification of new messages to me for this thread isn't working! So please tag me to LMK (typing @ markpd , without the space after the @).
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Dec 28, 2021 10:11:40 GMT -8
2 sisters, together since birth. They lived together with no problems until one died when they were 2 years 10 months old. They started out in a 60x30x30cm tank, then were upgraded to a 75x45x37cm tank, then to a 120x40x45cm tank, and finally to a 100x50x60cm tank with a topper of equivalent size, with various shelves. All dimensions are LxWxH.
Clan size - 2 Relationship - sisters Age at beginning of clan - since birth Age at end of clan - 2yrs 10mths Cage size - 60x30x30 cm > 75x45x37 cm > 120x40x45 cm tanks > 100x50x60 cm tank+topper Declanned? - no
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Dec 28, 2021 10:12:18 GMT -8
Markpd have you trying unbookmarking and rebookmarking the thread?
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Post by Markpd on Dec 28, 2021 11:59:00 GMT -8
Good idea , actually, I've just realised I haven't bookmarked it (I just went to 'my threads' list before I stickied it). Anyway, I'll try that to see if it helps. And thanks for the extra data point , even though it is under recent sad circumstances.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 3, 2022 9:34:02 GMT -8
Some people will notice I've edited in the table below to their post, this is to make it easier for me (us) to pick out the information, especially as the pages build up!
I've highlighted in my op that I would like everyone who posts a report to have this table in . Some lines can be deleted, as e.g it's obvious that sisters are females! , no aggravating factors if they didn't declan, and time together will normally be from birth if they are siblings.
Clan size - Relationship - Gender(s) - Age at beginning of clan - Age at end of clan - And/or, time together - Cage size - (please don't just say big or small, but give at least approx. dimensions or volume. And where it's changed, cage sizes. Mention toppers, and if any multiple linked cages). Declanned? - (yes/no) Aggravating factor(s) -
Basic (only gender and declan or not) tally update:- - 24+ pairs with no declans (including a neutered male with a female) (will break down between male and females later) [edit, corrected tally]
of which 10 pairs weren't categorised, 1 report missing or mis-counted, 3 male pairs, 9 female pairs and 2 mixed pairs with a neutered male (not many report of male pairs here!) - 5 pairs declanned (3 pairs brothers, 1 pair mother and daughter, 1 pair unrelated males) - 4 trios declanned (all males, 2 trios not all related and one trio probably all related, 1 trio unknown relationship of all males) - 2 trios, didn't declan (1 all males, unknown relationship, other mother and daughters) - 2 groups of four declanned (unrelated males, 4 sisters) - 1 group of six declanned (mother and daughters) - 1 group of eight declanned (unrelated males)
I think that's right! LMK if you think it's off. Data from betty's large table in the thread linked on page 1 not included (awaiting some more info). Also not included is the trio to pair of michealjack (awaiting further info).
Interesting point, both LilyandDaisy and Gerbilord had a pair which calmed down when moved to a bigger cage.
betty did you manage to dig out any records to add a few more cases? (I can't remember where we got to with that). They were like a year or so, one was the daughter and like a few months old, and she bit her moms tail off! Shame on her. So is the info below correct for that pair? Do you remember what size their cage was? Also info on the males that got one fine would be good (as per format below). Clan size - 2 Relationship - mother & daughter Age at beginning of clan - since birth of daughter Age at end of clan - ~1yr, a few months (3-4) Time together - Cage size - Declanned? - yes Clan size - Relationship - Gender(s) - male Age at beginning of clan - Age at end of clan - Time together - Cage size - Declanned? - no
Ok, no worries, thanks for the reply anyway . In the exceptional aforementioned case: my granddaughter and I had three well-seasoned sibling matriarchs who would absolutely have nothing to do with reclanning after living together 3-5 years.
Any specific details on this trio? 1 black and 2 agoutis, sisters with black brother, family background unknown, acquired in summer 2015 and unmonitored for data. They were my granddaughter's pets, and all sporadically produced few babies - black, agouti, and one surprise: lilac. Since they nested together, I never ascertained which produced what colors. I removed the brother in 2019, and the ladies lived on together until they died months apart in 2019 and 2020. I forgot to ask, did you remove the brother to stop a declan? Or for other reasons?
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Post by betty on Jan 3, 2022 11:15:16 GMT -8
Great summary Mark - and no I don't think I ever found my book with the gerbil details in it.
Will endeavor to find it on my next clutter-rummage...
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Post by Markpd on Jan 3, 2022 12:33:14 GMT -8
A breakdown of the stats for pairs:- 1 pair of brothers didn't declan 1 pair of unrelated males didn't declan 3 pairs of brothers declanned (mine, ps25's and zb's) 1 pair of unrelated males declanned 5 pairs of sisters didn't declan 5 unrelated pairs of females didn't declan 1 pair of females declanned (mother and daughter)
2 mixed pairs, both with neutered males, didn't declan
Total of 14 pairs that didn't declann, +10 pairs info couldn't be broken down due to insufficient info, but none declanned.
[edit, corrected tallies].
Don't read too much into the male declanning numbers, we have insufficient data really, I'm surprised we've had no female pair declanning reports though! Thelodar re Mowgli, Seamus, and Liam trio, how long after Seamus passing did the other 2 declann? And are Eliza and Felicity still ok together? (you expected that if Felicity fully recovered that they'd declann).
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Post by Thelodar on Jan 4, 2022 11:36:23 GMT -8
Thelodar re Mowgli, Seamus, and Liam trio, how long after Seamus passing did the other 2 declann? And are Eliza and Felicity still ok together? (you expected that if Felicity fully recovered that they'd declann). I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was a while as I never suspected it had contributed. I got Liam and Seamus at 5 weeks old in December 2017. I believe Seamus was about 8 months old when he passed. So let's say July 2018. I know from photos that Liam and Mowgli we're still together in February 2019 bit we're split by September 2019. So it was over 6 months later. Eliza actually fell ill and passed very quickly a few months ago, so Felicity is alone at the moment. I've considered re-pairing her but am not sure how another gerbil would react to her. I might try her with Peggy as she's a similar age and has been very sweet with each of her tank mates.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 4, 2022 12:19:56 GMT -8
Thelodar re Mowgli, Seamus, and Liam trio, how long after Seamus passing did the other 2 declann? And are Eliza and Felicity still ok together? (you expected that if Felicity fully recovered that they'd declann). I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was a while as I never suspected it had contributed. I got Liam and Seamus at 5 weeks old in December 2017. I believe Seamus was about 8 months old when he passed. So let's say July 2018. I know from photos that Liam and Mowgli we're still together in February 2019 bit we're split by September 2019. So it was over 6 months later. Eliza actually fell ill and passed very quickly a few months ago, so Felicity is alone at the moment. I've considered re-pairing her but am not sure how another gerbil would react to her. I might try her with Peggy as she's a similar age and has been very sweet with each of her tank mates. Oh! Sorry to hear about Eliza , was surprised to read that after you mentioned Felicity's health problems last time! I take it Eliza and Felicity were together until the end? And were those 2 sisters? How old was Eliza?
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Post by Thelodar on Jan 4, 2022 13:23:33 GMT -8
Yes, they were still together. She was quite young, turned 1 year in June, died in September. They were indeed sisters.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 4, 2022 14:56:59 GMT -8
That is young, sad to hear . But thanks for the info, I can complete another entry for you now (as below). Thelodar's gerbils Eliza and Felicity Clan size - 2 Relationship - sisters Age at beginning of clan - from birth Age at end of clan - 1yr 3 mths (Eliza died) Cage size - 20g > 40g Declanned? - no
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