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Post by Markpd on Dec 7, 2022 23:25:56 GMT -8
Thanks for the info LilyandDaisy , so sad about T&W. Have you been able to figure out what was the cause? iamplanktonThanks for the info, and yes will be interesting to see how they do . I won't be adding your clan to the list yet as it's for clans that have run their course.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Dec 8, 2022 8:32:22 GMT -8
Thanks for the info LilyandDaisy , so sad about T&W. Have you been able to figure out what was the cause? iamplankton Thanks for the info, and yes will be interesting to see how they do . I won't be adding your clan to the list yet as it's for clans that have run their course. Not yet. I doubt I ever will unfortunately. The other gerbils are still fine and back in their big cage now. My ancient hamster is also fine.
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Post by iamplankton on Mar 10, 2023 8:18:55 GMT -8
Clan size - 4 Relationship - 2 mothers (sisters), 2 daughters (1st cousins) Age at beginning of clan - mothers Age at end of clan - mothers 1yr 11 mths, 1 daughter 1yr old, other daughter 11 mths And/or, time together - since birth Cage size - 20 gallons > 95 gallons Declanned? - yes Aggravating factor(s) - unknown
Just to update that my clan of 4 females have declanned today. I keep the gerbils in my home office and noticed blood in the PawHut this morning and inspected the gerbils and Oreo had been quite badly attacked with Coco being the attacker (she had blood on her face but no wounds herself). I put all 4 gerbils in the playpen after cleaning Oreo up and getting the blood off Coco, and the minute I put them back in to the PawHut, Coco went for Oreo again so I have separated in to mother/daughter pairs now. Coco and her daughter Chanel now live in the PawHut and Oreo and her daughter Bubbles (who happened to turn 1 today!) now live in a Kaze tub with Savic cage topper. I am very saddened as there weren’t any signs and I have done everything in my power to keep the peace of the clan but something must have triggered Coco to attack her sister.
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Post by Markpd on Mar 11, 2023 3:08:33 GMT -8
Sorry to hear that , at least all your gerbils are ok. Btw, can you post their details as per my guide in the op?
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Catastrophic
member
Gerbils and cats are the best animals
Posts: 14
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Post by Catastrophic on Feb 18, 2024 1:34:09 GMT -8
Clan size: three Gender: male Relationship: assumed brothers? Tank size: 25>30 gallons Declan: partly Reason: sickness Age at beginning of clan: 9 weeks Age at end of clan: 1 year and 2.5 yearsI had a clan of three males, Cloudy Sparky and Ziggy, they were in the pet shop originally as two bonded male pairs (we assumed they were brothers at the time but they all looked very different colours and patterns? One white underbelly, agouti, Ziggy, one completely slate, Sparky, and one dove pied, Cloudy). One of them, dark eyed white I nicknamed Snowfall, died sadly for unknown reasons so we took the three males left and they bonded in a thirty gallon tank without any issues - but after a year Cloudy, who had always been the less active one got sick again, and I think this caused the other two to reject him, taking food when he tried to eat and fighting if he came near them. I noticed he moved into the very corner of the tank, so I separated them, and unfortunately soon after Cloudy died, of cancer that had apparently probably been developing for a long time, but we hadn’t noticed as he had always been quite quiet and less active, but he went downhill very suddenly, he was almost paralysed by the end.
The other two stayed bonded for another 1.5 years without any issues, until Sparky‘s passing, and Ziggy seemed to cope quite well after the grief, but I did notice that he stopped burrowing as much.
Oh and I had to change the tank, forgot to mention the original was a 25 gallon that Sparky chewed the lid off of, but after changing to a thirty gallon there weren’t any noticeable behaviour changes
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Post by Markpd on Mar 12, 2024 12:34:21 GMT -8
Thanks for the clan report Catastrophic I've merged your 2 posts btw, and changed your last line "three gallon" to thirty (as per the tank size stats), I assume that was a typo, 3 gallons would be rather small! lol
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Catastrophic
member
Gerbils and cats are the best animals
Posts: 14
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Post by Catastrophic on Mar 12, 2024 12:56:20 GMT -8
Oh yes how did I not notice that?! 3 gallons would be tiny!
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Post by Markpd on Mar 12, 2024 13:06:15 GMT -8
Heheh , no worries.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Mar 12, 2024 21:05:45 GMT -8
Clan size - 2 Relationship - sisters Age at beginning of clan - 6 weeks (were briefly separated for 4 days prior to that) Age at end of clan - 1yr 10 months (problems at 10 months old) And/or, time together - 1yr 10 months Cage size - 75x40x? > 100x50x60+ full size topper (topper later removed) Declanned? - yes Aggravating factor(s) - personalities and size difference, and possibly the 4 day separation?
I suppose I'd better add Astra and Twiglet's story to this thread. Two sisters, together from birth, who declanned. I first noticed problems between them when they were 10 months old and this culminated in their separation almost exactly a year later when they were 1 year and 10 months old. Cage size: There was rather a lot of to-ing and fro-ing here. They spent their first few months in a tank about 75x40cm in size, or about 30 gallons. When they were 5 months old they were moved to the enclosure that was intended to be their permanent enclosure, a 100x50x60cm tank with a topper of equivalent size, with various shelves. When they were 10 months old, things started to go wrong. The whole year-long story is detailed here, but to cut a long story short, by the time I had to separate them a year later, they were living in a 100x50cm tank with only low platforms for the sand bath, wheel etc. After they were separated, both gerbils were successfully introduced to a young pup each. Possible aggravating factor(s) / general reflectionsTwiglet was a large gerbil from birth (as a pup her name was "Bump" due to her size). Astra was a small gerbil from birth. At 6 weeks old she weighed about the same as a typical 4-week-old pup, not because she was a runt or sickly, just because she was genetically small. However, Astra also had a strong personality from a young age. As a young pup, she was always the boldest, and the first to try anything new, according to their breeder. I have the impression that in some ways she was the leader of pack as a pup. Astra has an assertive personality and I like to joke that she's a "little star who thinks she's the sun". It's mostly just a joke but I'm not convinced there isn't some truth in it, when it comes to Astra's opinion of where her place ought to be in a clan. Nevertheless, when I first got the gerbils, Twiglet was most definitely dominant and Astra didn't particularly seem to challenge that when they were young. The gerbils were separated for 4 days when they were 6 weeks old. I originally got Astra to introduce to an older gerbil, Tilly. That introduction went terribly because Tilly was very aggressive towards Astra. So Astra spent 4 days in a split without any normal contact with another gerbil. Even when an adult and a pup are in a split, the pup will seek out the adult's attention, and normally the adult will respond with friendly greetings and grooming through the mesh. But in this case, Astra quickly learnt not to seek out contact with Tilly because she got nothing but aggression in response, which means she was essentially on her own. I've sometimes wondered if those 4 days on her own, and separated from her dominant sister, caused Astra to become a bit more independent than she might otherwise. Once it became clear that the introduction wasn't going to work, I adopted Twiglet as well and reintroduced her and Astra with a quick neutral space intro. They accepted each other, and Twiglet immediately groomed Astra all over to assert her dominance, which Astra submitted to. So nothing seemed wrong at the time, and I'll never know if it was a factor at all (my gut feeling is that the declan would likely have happened anyway). My top theory as to cause of this declan is that it was a simple dominance clash between Twiglet's size which made her dominant by default and Astra's personality, which emerged as she matured. I think it's possible their enclosure contributed, because things were always worse when they were in a larger enclosure, especially one with multiple levels. However I don't think the enclosure caused the declan, because it seems to me the gerbils were just fundamentally incompatible. I believe it's said that pairs who are more similar in size are more likely to declan, as dominance can be more ambiguous. Astra and Twiglet had the greatest difference in size of any pair I have ever owned or come across, so it is ironic that they declanned. Moreover, Astra, the smallest gerbil I have ever had, was the instigator, and Twiglet, the largest gerbil I have ever had, was the victim. However, if personality, determination, and cunning had mass, Astra would weigh a tonne.
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Post by Markpd on Mar 15, 2024 16:46:41 GMT -8
Thanks for the report L&D Even though it didn't end like you'd want, it makes an interesting story and report! (Btw I will edit your post to add the info to a table I need for stats gathering, as per the op).
************
Op list updated.
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Post by Markpd on Mar 22, 2024 16:42:27 GMT -8
Sure! Sorry I wasn't even thinking about that. Clan size - 4 Relationship - mother and daughters Time together - 3 months Cage size - 40 gal Declanned? - no Clan size - 3 Relationship - father, son, nephew Time together - 5 months Cage size - 20 gal (they had trouble in a larger one, so I moved them over) Declanned - no (although in the larger tank it was getting risky at times) I hope that works well. I couldn't say exact ages of a few of them, so I chose to put time together instead. Thanks TJ
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